Moral Luck - Revision history

Spr1ggs: /* 2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush Wording*/

2026-05-03T17:53:26Z

2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush Wording

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:53, 3 May 2026
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	===2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush ===		===2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush ===
	{{#ev:youtube\|k-JC1voCu54\|300\|right\|'''2012-12-26 A conversation with Vaush (Irishladdie): feminism and the revolution'''\|\|start=5772}}		{{#ev:youtube\|k-JC1voCu54\|300\|right\|'''2012-12-26 A conversation with Vaush (Irishladdie): feminism and the revolution'''\|\|start=5772}}
	Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with Vaush that mirrored several aspects of that discussion. ~~Contrary to what would be~~ the later discussion, the conflict here centered on whether mob-based activist tactics could be considered a legitimate vehicle for political action without a philosophically defensible basis.		Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with Vaush that mirrored several aspects of that discussion. Unlike the later discussion, the conflict here centered on whether mob-based activist tactics could be considered a legitimate vehicle for political action without a philosophically defensible basis, rather than whether political advocates themselves require philosophical grounding before engaging in public discourse.

	Approximately halfway through the call, the two discussed the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says" (SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the methods SRS had recently employed to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to assert that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite		Approximately halfway through the call, the two discussed the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says" (SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the methods SRS had recently employed to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to assert that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite

Spr1ggs: /* 2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush wording*/

2026-05-03T17:51:41Z

2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush wording

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:51, 3 May 2026
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	===2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush ===		===2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush ===
	{{#ev:youtube\|k-JC1voCu54\|300\|right\|'''2012-12-26 A conversation with Vaush (Irishladdie): feminism and the revolution'''\|\|start=5772}}		{{#ev:youtube\|k-JC1voCu54\|300\|right\|'''2012-12-26 A conversation with Vaush (Irishladdie): feminism and the revolution'''\|\|start=5772}}
	Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with Vaush that mirrored several aspects of that discussion.		Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with Vaush that mirrored several aspects of that discussion. Contrary to what would be the later discussion, the conflict here centered on whether mob-based activist tactics could be considered a legitimate vehicle for political action without a philosophically defensible basis.

	Approximately halfway through the call, the two discussed the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says" (SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the methods SRS had recently employed to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to assert that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite		Approximately halfway through the call, the two discussed the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says" (SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the methods SRS had recently employed to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to assert that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite
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	}} </ref>		}} </ref>
	<div style="clear: both;"></div>		<div style="clear: both;"></div>

	== References ==		== References ==
	[[Category:Debates]]		[[Category:Debates]]

Legarthum: table

2026-04-18T10:05:25Z

table

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:05, 18 April 2026
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	\|source = https://youtu.be/k-JC1voCu54?t=7186		\|source = https://youtu.be/k-JC1voCu54?t=7186
	}} </ref>		}} </ref>
			<div style="clear: both;"></div>
	== References ==		== References ==
	[[Category:Debates]]		[[Category:Debates]]

Spr1ggs: /* 2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush wording */

2026-04-18T00:35:04Z

2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush wording

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:35, 18 April 2026
Line 251:		Line 251:
	Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with Vaush that mirrored several aspects of that discussion.		Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with Vaush that mirrored several aspects of that discussion.

	Approximately halfway through the ~~discussion~~, the two ~~focused on~~ the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says" (SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the ~~unethical manner in which~~ SRS had ~~chosen~~ to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to ~~argue~~ that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite		Approximately halfway through the call, the two discussed the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says" (SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the methods SRS had recently employed to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to assert that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite
	\|source-name = YouTube		\|source-name = YouTube
	\|year = 2012		\|year = 2012

Spr1ggs: /* 2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush wording

2026-04-18T00:30:00Z

/* 2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush wording

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:30, 18 April 2026
Line 249:		Line 249:
	===2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush ===		===2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush ===
	{{#ev:youtube\|k-JC1voCu54\|300\|right\|'''2012-12-26 A conversation with Vaush (Irishladdie): feminism and the revolution'''\|\|start=5772}}		{{#ev:youtube\|k-JC1voCu54\|300\|right\|'''2012-12-26 A conversation with Vaush (Irishladdie): feminism and the revolution'''\|\|start=5772}}
	Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with [[Vaush~~]] which~~ mirrored several aspects of ~~the 2019~~ discussion.		Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with Vaush that mirrored several aspects of that discussion.

	Approximately halfway through the discussion, the two focused on the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says" (SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the unethical manner in which SRS had chosen to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to argue that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite		Approximately halfway through the discussion, the two focused on the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says" (SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the unethical manner in which SRS had chosen to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to argue that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite

Spr1ggs: /* 2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush Grammar */

2026-04-17T18:11:30Z

2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush Grammar

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:11, 17 April 2026
Line 251:		Line 251:
	Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with [[Vaush]] which mirrored several aspects of the 2019 discussion.		Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with [[Vaush]] which mirrored several aspects of the 2019 discussion.

	Approximately halfway through the discussion, the two focused on the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says"(SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the unethical manner in which SRS had chosen to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to argue that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite		Approximately halfway through the discussion, the two focused on the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says" (SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the unethical manner in which SRS had chosen to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to argue that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite
	\|source-name = YouTube		\|source-name = YouTube
	\|year = 2012		\|year = 2012

Spr1ggs: 2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush, Vaush's arguments

2026-04-17T18:07:11Z

2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush, Vaush's arguments

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:07, 17 April 2026
Line 251:		Line 251:
	Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with [[Vaush]] which mirrored several aspects of the 2019 discussion.		Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with [[Vaush]] which mirrored several aspects of the 2019 discussion.

	Approximately halfway through the discussion, the two focused on the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says"(SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the unethical manner in which SRS had chosen to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to argue that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming ~~any~~ moral certainty without having to defend it (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite		Approximately halfway through the discussion, the two focused on the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says"(SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the unethical manner in which SRS had chosen to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to argue that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite
	\|source-name = YouTube		\|source-name = YouTube
	\|year = 2012		\|year = 2012
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	\|retrieved-date = 2026, April 17		\|retrieved-date = 2026, April 17
	\|source = https://youtu.be/k-JC1voCu54?t=5772		\|source = https://youtu.be/k-JC1voCu54?t=5772
			}} </ref>

			Vaush's arguments were largely similar to those he employed against Rem. Essentially, he defended SRS's tactics on the grounds that every successful social movement in history had relied on similar methods of "mob mentality", and that demanding a rigorous intellectual discussion in this particular space would simply not be pragmatic. <ref> {{cite
			\|source-name = YouTube
			\|year = 2012
			\|title = Destiny debates Irishladdie (Vaush) on SRS, feminism, and Project Panda
			\|retrieved-date = 2026, April 17
			\|source = https://youtu.be/k-JC1voCu54?t=7186
	}} </ref>		}} </ref>

	== References ==		== References ==
	[[Category:Debates]]		[[Category:Debates]]

Spr1ggs: wording

2026-04-17T18:01:37Z

wording

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:01, 17 April 2026
Line 251:		Line 251:
	Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with [[Vaush]] which mirrored several aspects of the 2019 discussion.		Seven years prior to the [[Moral Luck]] discussion, Destiny engaged in a lengthy debate with [[Vaush]] which mirrored several aspects of the 2019 discussion.

	Approximately halfway through the discussion, the two focused on the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says"(SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the unethical manner in which SRS had chosen to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to argue that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming any moral certainty without having to defend it (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite		Approximately halfway through the discussion, the two focused on the Subreddit "Shit Reddit Says"(SRS), a subreddit Vaush had been a regular user of. Destiny took issue with the unethical manner in which SRS had chosen to get a creepshots subreddit taken down (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit), and argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to argue that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming any moral certainty without having to defend it (e.g. Nazis). <ref> {{cite
	\|source-name = YouTube		\|source-name = YouTube
	\|year = 2012		\|year = 2012
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	\|source = https://youtu.be/k-JC1voCu54?t=5772		\|source = https://youtu.be/k-JC1voCu54?t=5772
	}} </ref>		}} </ref>


	== References ==		== References ==
	[[Category:Debates]]		[[Category:Debates]]

Spr1ggs: Similar discussion section: 2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush

2026-04-17T18:00:48Z

Similar discussion section: 2012 SRS/Creepshots debate with Vaush

@@ Line 245: / Line 245: @@
 * [https://youtu.be/AjszEJBKWRs?t=12949 3:35:49] Destiny says his goodbyes and ends his stream.
 |}
 == References ==
 [[Category:Debates]]

Devonnn: tquote

2025-01-07T22:40:05Z

tquote

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:40, 7 January 2025
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	{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjszEJBKWRs\|300px\|right\| '''Streamer Drama ft. Hasanabi, Vaush, Marty & RemTheBathBoi'''}}		{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjszEJBKWRs\|300px\|right\| '''Streamer Drama ft. Hasanabi, Vaush, Marty & RemTheBathBoi'''}}
			{{tquote
			\|quote= Someone is morally lucky when they arrive at the correct position without any sort of critical thinking as to why it is correct.
			\|name= Rem
			\|source= https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/cbfh6y/rem_what_i_mean_by_moral_luck_with_regards_to/
			}}
	'''Moral Luck''', refers to the concept that individuals are essentially a product of their environment, particularly with regards to Political beliefs.		'''Moral Luck''', refers to the concept that individuals are essentially a product of their environment, particularly with regards to Political beliefs.

	~~{{blockquote~~
	~~\|quote="Someone is morally lucky when they arrive at the correct position without any sort of critical thinking as to why it is correct."~~
	\|name=Rem in a [https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/cbfh6y/rem_what_i_mean_by_moral_luck_with_regards_to/ reddit post] following a heated conversation on the subject of '''moral luck'''.<ref>https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/cbfh6y/rem_what_i_mean_by_moral_luck_with_regards_to/ </ref>}}

	The term was first brought to the forefront on [[Destiny]]'s streams during a particular heated debate between [[Rem]], [[Vaush]], and [[Hasan]], wherein the term was discussed in exceeding detail.<ref> Streamer Drama ft. Hasanabi, Vaush, Marty & RemTheBathBoi. (Mar 23, 2019). www.youtube.com. Retrieved April 3, 2024, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjszEJBKWRs </ref> Rem being of the position that political pundits, especially those with large audiences, have a responsibility to ensure their arguments are philosophically grounded. Rem would go on to assert that individuals who do not do so, run the risk of "lucking" into their positions through life-experiences, and may not truly be advocating for the "most correct" positions.		The term was first brought to the forefront on [[Destiny]]'s streams during a particular heated debate between [[Rem]], [[Vaush]], and [[Hasan]], wherein the term was discussed in exceeding detail.<ref> Streamer Drama ft. Hasanabi, Vaush, Marty & RemTheBathBoi. (Mar 23, 2019). www.youtube.com. Retrieved April 3, 2024, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjszEJBKWRs </ref> Rem being of the position that political pundits, especially those with large audiences, have a responsibility to ensure their arguments are philosophically grounded. Rem would go on to assert that individuals who do not do so, run the risk of "lucking" into their positions through life-experiences, and may not truly be advocating for the "most correct" positions.