Lav

Lea 'Lav'

Lea AKA LavLune is a singer, TikTok content creator, feminist and former OnlyFans content creator who spent some time as one of the most antagonistic orbiters to ever grace Destiny's stream.

On stream appearances with Destiny and dramas WIP

Destiny Moderates a debate between MrGirl and Lav

On June 12, 2022, Destiny reacted to a vod of Lav appearing on a call-in show hosted by MrGirl. During her call-in Lav debated topics involving gaslighting, boundaries, and abuse. The initial debate primarily centered around discussing what an individual should do if they heard their partner crying in another room. Lav was of the belief that when an individual feels themselves becoming emotionality dysregulated by an action their partner has done, and thinks they may lash out on their partner as a result of said action, the individual should self-regulate by taking a walk or creating some emotional/physical distance. MrGirl felt that such actions by an individual would make their partner feel abandoned, and that one should learn to emotionally regulate without withdrawing. Lav came away from the conversation feeling emotionality/physically frustrated, and even questioned if she was abusing her husband after hearing MrGirl's position.

While watching the debate, Destiny had trouble discerning what the two were actually debating about. He also noted that MrGirl never asked Lav any clarifying questions about her position, and was fairly aggressive throughout the conversation.

Debate Highlights(Destiny reacting to a vod of MrGirl and Lav)

At 0:30 Lav calls into MrGirl's show. At 1:55 Lav tells MrGirl "The way you feel about Steven Crowder is how I feel about you." And that she feels dread looking at him. At 9:06 MrGirl calmly tells Lav to shutup. At 9:36 Lav accuses MrGirl of getting mad at Destiny for not taking a "deliberate stance" about him. MrGirl says he does not care about the reasons but does care about the lack of a stance, to which Lav accuses MrGirl of lying. At 15:11 Lav describes how she "molds" her husband to take care of her, and makes the claim that MrGirl does the same with his girlfriend. Lav goes on to describe MrGirl as unintentionally "skeevy" in the way he goes about this molding. At 20:35, when asked what she (Lav) would do if her partner was crying or facing emotional turmoil in another room, Lav replied that she would try to ignore her partner and later express her frustration with them once they've calmed down. At 25:30, Lav accuses MrGirl of "over-indexing" boundaries because he is bad at establishing them. MrGirl counters that Lav does train people, and accuses her of wanting him to use emotional/physical withdrawal to "train" his girlfriend(which he describes as abusive). Lav then accuses MrGirl of using her as a punching bag to vent his frustrations about Destiny. At 29:50 Lav joins the call. Destiny offers her some advice, telling her she must be "very chill" in order to challenge someone, particularly MrGirl, on their behavior. At 33:31 Lav states she "would never date a man who cries". At 37:50 Destiny expresses his frustration about not being able to follow along with what is going on in the conversation. At 49:50 Destiny offers some critiques of MrGirl. He notices that MrGirl never asks clarifying questions to discern what his debate opponent is thinking. At 54:50 MrGirl's accuses Lav of being abusive after she brings up his traumatic childhood. Lav responds that she only brought up MrGirl's mother because she believes he is subconsciously attaching opinions to Lav she doesn't truly believe. At 58:09 Lav tells MrGirl he is coming off as very uncharitable and aggressive. MrGirl responds that she is doing the same. At 1:06:38 Destiny agrees with a statement Lav made in the call, that MrGirl tends to go "really hard" when he sees someone show weakness in a conversation.

After watching the vod, Destiny decided to invite Lav onto his stream to offer her some debate advice. Soon after, MrGirl joined the call, and Destiny moderated a debate between the two. With Destiny's assistance, the two were able to clearly lay out their positions. Despite this, the debate still became quite heated, and both debaters maintained the same positions they entered the call with.

Debate Highlights(Destiny moderating a debate between MrGirl and Lav)

At 1:10:08 Lav joins the call, and Destiny asks her what the goal of the conversation she had with MrGirl was. At 1:16:11 Lav points out that she noticed MrGirl's chat calling her a "demon" and questioned if his audience was composed of incels. At 1:19:30 Lav claims that MrGirl positions himself to be some "all knowing god". At 1:25:21 Lav tells Destiny what she "got cancelled" for, she goes on to describe how she took issue with a video saying "it's weird when a women feels connected to their vagina". At 1:57:31 Shortly after MrGirl joins the call, the three agree to have a debate with Destiny moderating. At 2:00:29 Lav asserts her position in the conversation was: When an individual feels themselves becoming emotionality dysregulated by an action their partner has done, and thinks they may lash out on their partner as a result of said action, the individual should self-regulate by taking a walk or creating some emotional/physical distance. At 2:01:56 MrGirl provides a counterargument to Lav's position: When an individual in a relationship creates emotional/physical distance as a result of their partner's actions, the partner may feel abandoned. At 2:18:05 Destiny asks MrGirl if he thinks he could've done anything better in the conversation. MrGirl does not respond, and instead accuses Destiny of running defense for lav. At 2:24:50 Lav states that the line between "being abusive" and "not being abusive" is intent. At 2:30:57 Lav attempts to apologize for bringing up MrGirl's mother in their previous convo, Mrgirl is quick to cut Lav off and accuses her of changing the subject and being an abuser. At 2:33:42 Lav tries to explain to MrGirl that they come from very similar background and are the "same person" in many ways, while Destiny begins to play the piano. For the next hour and a half MrGirl and Lav engage in a cycle of attempting to debate the aforementioned partner crying in another room scenario, and occasionally get sidetracked by Lav talking about her personal life or getting frustrated with MrGirl. This all occurs while Destiny fruitlessly tries to get the two to engage meaningfully, cut between him playing the piano. Nothing is accomplished in the conversation, and nobody moves from their prior positions.

Destiny reacts to a panel featuring Lav

On August 6, 2022, Chudlogic hosted a panel to discuss sex work and OnlyFans. Among the guests on this panel included Merrick Deville, Wickedsupreme, and Lav. Destiny had chosen to watch this panel because he was interested in Lav's perspective as an individual who quit creating OnlyFans content as a result of her interactions with MrGirl.

Lav confronts Destiny in a Pre-Panel debate

On August 7, 2022, Lav confronted Destiny in a Pre-Panel debate, suggesting he misunderstood the financial struggles of sex workers when comparing them to other professions like doctors. The discussion explored the societal implications of sex work, particularly in platforms like OnlyFans, touching on subjects such as the dehumanization of women, unrealistic beauty standards, and societal consumption of explicit content. They debated the role of personal responsibility, with Lav emphasizing the potential negative impacts of sex work on society, while Destiny argued that the issue lies more with societal engagement and overindulgence in technology than with sex work itself.

Debate Highlights

Highlights from the panel include: At 1:40 Lav makes the claim that subscribing to an OnlyFans content creator's page is the equivalent to monetizing women's oppression. She goes on to say that women utilizing OnlyFans is a net negative for society as a whole. Destiny counters that women capitalizing on men's desires in such a way that allows them to earn a living is not necessarily a negative thing. At 4:13 Lav states that sexual oppression is a big theme for women, a women's value is tied to their age( "once i'm thirty i'm fucking dead to this world"), and men don't have these issues. Destiny, noticing that Lav just shotgunned out three topics, decides to dissect each point individually. Destiny asks if it's possible for a women not to be sexually oppressed while still capitalizing on their sexuality, and highlights a parallel to men feeling useless at younger ages(men being valued for experience/money which comes with age). At 6:54 Lav asserts that a man can never fully grasp the experiences of a women much like how a white man "can never fully grasp the experience of a black man". Destiny responds that the same can be said for women trying to grasp the experiences of a man. Lav then takes the conflicting position of being a feminist and gender abolitionist. At 8:53 Destiny asks Lav: "If a women chooses to take pictures of herself, sell them online, and there are men who choose to purchase those images because they enjoy it, where is the oppression in that interaction?" To which Lav responds "when you add money to something, especially a body, you dehumanize it..." Destiny responds that this "dehumanization" is unavoidable and an unfortunate reality due to locality issues(i.e. it's easy to see someone as less human if they are online). At 12:52 Lav makes the claim that "50-60% of men see themselves escalating porn, and the algorithm favors violent porn, most of sex is degradation or violence against women..." At 16:17 Lav makes the argument that the "problem is not porn, it's the unregulation of porn... we should go back to a playboyesque thing with still-images... porn is out of control". Destiny responds that this issue is not directly a cause of porn, and more related to a societal issue with regards to individuals seeking the quickest "dopamine hits"(citing people obsessively browsing reddit or TikTok) through unfettered access to technology.

Lav debates sex work and ethics on a ChudLogic panel

From left to right: REDACTED, Destiny, Lav, Jenavive, MrGirl, ChudLogic, and TafTaj on a panel to discuss sex work.

On August 7, 2022 Lav joined Destiny, REDACTED, Sneako, and MrGirl, to discuss several topics including OnlyFans, sex work, AI porn, and Dogwarts. Much like her prior appearances, Lav takes the position that sex work is a net-negative to society and should be heavily regulated. As there are multiple sex-workers(TafTaj and Jenavive) on the call, much contention arises. This conversation quickly becomes heated as multiple "shit-stirrers" are present in the call.

Debate Highlights

Highlights from this panel include: At 31:30, MrGirl chooses to bring up Lav, stating that she advertises her OnlyFans by saying on streams that it harms her. Destiny is quick to point out that she deleted all but one post on her OnlyFans. At 35:51, MrGirl says he banned Lav from his discord for sexualizing minors(she posted pictures of herself as a child and asked for "tributes"). At 46:02, REDACTED and Lav join the call. Lav takes issue with MrGirl claiming she sexualized minors, and banning her from his discord. At 1:28:19, Lav states that the sharing of nude images between partners is problematic(shortly after stating she is not sex-negative). At 1:39:24 Destiny provides the example of Portugal, a country that decriminalized all porn, and saw the rates of sexual assaults fall. He goes on to say that no such study exists linking the increase in the consumption of porn to an increase in sexual assault, to which Lav responds: "look for it, it's there, I promise..." Destiny rebukes that he has "looked for it" and found the opposite to be true in every study(i.e. consumption of porn in fact reduces chances for sexual assault). At 1:41:03, Lav states she is only acting emotionally because MrGirl is in the call, and has not taken any extreme positions. Destiny is quick to point out her earlier argument that couples should not take nudes of one other. Lav then denies ever taking this position, and accuses everyone in the call of lying. At 1:53:32. Lav asserts that a "rape fantasy is fucking ridiculous", and that indviduals should refrain from engaging in such behavior as they are making a mockery out of victims. When questioned on this belief by multiple members of the panel, Lav asks "why would someone even have a kink like that?" At 1:59:44, Lav says the patriarchy has made an example out of Jenavive(after Jenavive states she "enjoys being looked at" sexually). Others on the panel point out that Lav has repeatedly handwaved Jenavive's arguments. At 2:02:25, MrGirl tells Lav to shut the fuck up. At 2:09:16, Lav provides incite into why she thinks OnlyFans subscribers do not care about the models they subscribe to. She cites a personal story involving her stay at a hospital and her subscribers being irritated by a lack of content.

Lav hashes out her personal grievances with several orbiters on Destiny's stream

From left to right: Brittany, ChudLogic, REDACTED, Destiny, Lav, MrGirl, Erudite, and Stardust on a panel debating Brittany's levels system.

On August 11, 2022, Lav confronted several orbiters on Destiny's stream for several hours to hash out some perceived personal grievances the individuals had with one another(primarily between Brittany and Lav). The "panel" initially started as a one on one discussion between Destiny and Lav, wherein she had many negative things to say about Brittany Simon. The conversation quickly devolved into a shouting match as more orbiters elected to join the discord call, and known shit-stirrer REDACTED contributed to the chaos. During the conversation, Lav and MrGirl try to convince a very high Brittany that her method of operating her Patreon and the “levels" system she utilizes are harmful. However, the disparate ways in which MrGirl and Lav present their messages leads to conflict between the two. By the end of the conversation Lav agrees with Brittany that she is smart enough to know what she's doing, and is truthfully engaging in harm reduction(she likely states this to spite MrGirl).

Debate Highlights

‌Highlights from the panel include: At 0:56 Lav calls Brittany Simon a very irritating person and a blatant narcissist. At 7:30 Lav clarifies that when she says "sex work is bad" she really means "sex work is bad for me", and emphasizes that she isn't suggesting that women should quit sex work in society. At 12:58 Lav describes herself as "very dogmatic". She adds that she asserts her answers as correct for any topic, even if she has limited knowledge about it. She goes on to describe her "unintentional" tendency to state her opinions as prescriptions/fact. At 19:15 Lav accuses Destiny of being a terrible advocate for open relationships, citing dramas involving Chaeiry and REDACTED. At 32:18 After stating her contentions with Open relationships Lav describes her "discord husband" whom she constantly sexually harasses. She goes on to say such flirting is within the boundaries of her relationship. At 35:00 Lav says she's worried about how Brittany utilizes her platform, and states she may lead women to "being alone at 30" with the lifestyle she advocates for. She also describes Brittany as thinking of herself as the most enlightened person in the world, and thinks she may have Bipolar Disorder. She goes on to say that Brittany might be running a sex cult. Destiny takes issue with these accusations and is forced to defend Brittany. At 42:18, Lav describes all the things about Brittany that disgust her: the way she propositions herself above the people she attempts to assist through her "levels" system, the paywall to her "mental health” content, and the sexual content she offers of herself. At 1:01:03, Brittany enters the call(high on weed). Lav reiterates that the potentiality for harm(towards women) with sex work is too great. She also states that the harm towards men, parasocially, is also great. She asks Brittany what expertise she's basing her "levels" system off of, and accuses Brittany of basing the system off her mental illness. Lav goes on to say she would never "prescribe" anyone(despite saying she inadvertently prescribes solutions to people earlier). At 1:10:25, MrGirl joins the call to assist Lav(MrGirl is not fond of Brittany). At 1:22:00, MrGirl takes issue with Lav's approach at debating Brittany and the two argue for some time. Brittany meanwhile expresses confusion with Lav's hatred towards her, as she has never interacted with Lav before this call. At 1:24:35, Mrgirl tells Lav to shut the fuck up. At 1:37:15, Lav expresses her frustration at being forced to deal with MrGirl "training" her and Brittany acting like a child. The three argue for some time regarding Brittany's level system, and the way she operates her Patreon. At 2:33:51, Lav and Brittany roleplay one of the "personal talks/journey through the levels" that Brittany offers on her Patreon. At 2:44:29, MrGirl tells Lav to shut the fuck up. At 3:22:37, Lav apologizes for her earlier behavior, concedes Brittany is "smart enough to know what she's doing", and thinks Brittany is actually engaging in harm reduction(she likely states all this to spite MrGirl).

REDACTED discusses a leaked recording of Lav trash talking Destiny

On August 12, 2022, REDACTED shed some light on a leaked recording involving Lav. This conversation occurred on ChudLogic's channel, and lasted around sixteen minutes. The conversation begins with a content creator in Chud's community, Kuihman, alleging that Lav lied about an individual stalking, calling the FBI on her, and posting a photo of her house on a private server. This all occurred after Lav lead a harassment campaign against the individual's friends.

REDACTED, Chud, and Kuihman go on to listen to a leaked call wherein Lav stated that Destiny wanted to suck her husband's cock, and that she would never sleep with him. In the call, Lav calls Destiny a "cheese-boy", elf, and troll-man. REDACTED says there are two possibilities, either Destiny is joking or a coomer.

Discussion Highlights

0:56 Chud discusses why he is still on twitch. 5:38 Chud and REDACTED begin discussing Lav. 6:43 The creator of the video, Kuihman, alleges that Lav lied about a case where an individual was stalking her, and calling the FBI on her. Kuihman goes on to describe how the only thing that substantiated Lav's claim was her calling the FBI on this individual, and the individual posting a photo of her house on a private server. He qualifies that all this occurred after Lav lead a harassment campaign against the individual's friends. 8:55 Kuihman describes how Lav got into a voice call after a conversation with Destiny and stated that he wanted to suck her husband's cock, and she would never sleep with Destiny. 11:30 Chudlogic plays the leaked call. 14:00 REDACTED describes two possibilities, either Destiny is joking or a coomer.

Lav discusses allegations made against her in a ChudLogic panel WIP =

Lav's dog of choice for Dogwarts

On August 14, 2022, Lav joined a ChudLogic panel to discuss allegations made against her, Destiny listened to the covnersation for half an hour before he got bored. During the call Lav confronts Kuihman over some alleged discord harassment campaigns he and his friends had organized against her.

Lav dispels the rumors about Destiny asking to suck her husband's cock. She reasons that she was just bantering and says many absurd things in discord calls, like wanting to fuck dogs(her preference is a Doberman). Lav goes on to say she'd be open to having sex with Destiny despite her bantering in the leaked call. She also states that her and Destiny were friends several months before she started to stream, implying any claims of her "clout-sharking" to be absurd.

Notable Clips, videos, logs, and tweets WIP

Lav

External Links

• Twitter
• Substack
• TikTok
• Instagram