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Hasanabi And Destiny BREAK UP Over Kamala Misinformation
On July 9, 2019 Destiny and Hasan had a very heated discussion regarding American politician Kamala Harris, leading to their first major fallout. [1] Following their onstream "breakup", both streamers created reddit threads regarding their takeaways from the discussion, and ultimately cut ties with one another for some time.
DGG's Favorability of Kamala before and after viewing Hasan's "You don't want Kopmala Harris" video.[2]
Before
After
Kamala is cool: 16% Lukewarm on Kamala: 60% Hate Kamala: 24%
Kamala is cool: 9% Lukewarm on Kamala: 43% Hate Kamala: 48%
This discussion arose following Destiny's viewing of "You Don't Want Cop-Mala Harris" on Hasan's channel. Prior to and after viewing the video, Destiny polled his audience(see right) to determine their favorability towards Harris. Following the poll's completion, Destiny found that his audience held a more disfavorable view towards Harris after viewing the video. Upon seeing the results, Destiny explains that he fact-checked every claim by Hasan made in the video, and ultimately concluded that Hasan was wrong in several instances and may have even created the video in bad faith. Destiny went on to chide Hasan for erroneously spreading disinformation about a potential democratic candidate during an election year.
Destiny explains that while he could find no information regarding the specific law Hasan is referring to, he was able to find information regarding a law established in that same year which allowed for illegal immigrants charged with a crime to be referred to ICE(with no mention of schools specifically referring students to the agency). Destiny goes on to explain that the law originated following an illegal immigrant being charged with the murder of three individuals, and that Kamala has recently stated that she regrets supporting the law. A chatter later asks if Destiny thinks this video is worse than any others critiquing Harris, given that Kamala is one of the "weirdest" areas of left-wing extreme bias. Destiny replies that it's not weird at all if one takes into account that people on the left hate cops, and that Hasan's video could be boiled down to "I really hate cops".
Hasan claims that Harris instituted a harsh, punitive, and dehumanizing truancy policy towards low income and single-parent families which involved "Lock[ing] innocent black mothers up for truancy". Hasan goes on to claim that Harris incarcerated a single, homeless mother of three working two jobs because her children were truants, and then touted it as a success story. Hasan went on to critique Harris for sending a "gestapo force" of intimidating officers(like homicide and gang detectives) to "scare the shit out of a homeless mother of three" into ensuring her children attended school.
Destiny argues that while he remains unsure whether Harris' policy was a net good or bad, Hasan's framing of the policy(that Kamala was sending a "gestapo force" to bully homeless women into sending their children to school) was overtly negative, unfairly framed, and did not accurately represent the intent or outcomes of the policy. Destiny pointed out that Harris's policy was intended to address a real issue—truancy—which is linked to higher rates of criminal behavior and poor outcomes for children. He argued that Harris's use of legal pressure was a way to compel parents to take their children's education seriously and to connect them with resources that could help improve school attendance. Destiny maintains that this is a positive, albeit potentially harsh, intervention, rather than a draconian measure as Hasan implied.
24:38 Destiny finds out that prior to Harris's policy, truancy citations were only issued to parents whose children missed more than fifty days of school(none of which were placed in jail). Following Harris's law, students who missed more than 10% of school days in a year(19 days) without a valid excuse would be subject to a truancy citation.
27:28 A chatter informs Destiny that the truancy policy would disproportionately affect people of color, which is why several people took issue with it. Destiny counters that this is not necessarily bad, especially if people of color were disproportionately having issues sending their children to school. Destiny goes on to argue that the central point of the policy was to provide struggling parents the necessary resources in order to send their children to school. Destiny argues that Hasan disingenuously framed the clip of Harris "touting" the policy to make it seem like she was celebrating sending the "gestapo" to poor families.
37:30 Following a chatter's inquiry with regards to the goal of Harris sending "intimidating" officers, Destiny argues that the "homicide and gang detectives" who were sent to these homes were volunteers. Destiny further argues that while it's possible these detectives were motivated for malicious reasons, it is equally likely that the "disgusting shit" seen daily by these detectives(i.e. 16 year olds with stab wounds), may have motivated them to speak with these families to nip potential future cases in the bud.
Should Kamala have addressed the issues differently?
Hasan argues that Harris should have sought other ways to bolster individuals and address socioeconomic issues in her district that did not involve criminal prosecution.
49:44 Hasan argues Harris should have sought to fix socioeconomic problems instead of being a "draconian prosecutor".
Destiny argues that as a District Attorney, Harris's primary responsibilities included law enforcement and public safety, and therefore, it was natural for her to use those tools to address issues like truancy. Destiny further argued that Harris did not have the the power to create social programs, allocate financial incentives, or directly address broader socio-economic issues. Destiny maintains that Harris's role was limited to enforcing the law and using legal measures to address problems within her jurisdiction. Destiny felt that Hasan's criticism did not fully account for these limitations, and that Hasan unfairly blamed Harris for not pursuing solutions that were beyond her control as a DA.
Timestamps for critique
17:29 Destiny begins his critique, argues that Kamala did what she could within the purview of her position.
32:50 Destiny reiterates that the goal of the policy was to "break the cycle" of poverty, by pushing people to send their children to school, not to simply put the "poorest in society in prison and give them fines they can't pay". Destiny mentions that Harris alleges a 20% increase in children attendance for her district following the institution of the policy, indicating it may have truly had a positive effect.
38:51 Destiny argues that Kamala did what she could within the purview of her position.
41:05 A chatter argues that Harris attempted to address issues outside her purview as a DA. Destiny explains that the actions Harris took were completely within her purview as a DA, arguing that she was attempting to "make her city a safer place". Destiny further argues that Harris managing her police force in a manner that contributed to more kids going to school was "not the worst thing in the world".
50:12 Upon hearing Hasan's argument that Harris should have sought way to fix socioeconomic opportunities, Destiny expresses his confusion arguing that fixing said issues were not within the purview of her job as a DA.
Destiny spends the next hour of his stream fielding questions from his chat and expressing his overall disappointment with individuals in DGG defending Hasan's seemingly unfair position towards Harris, as well as Hasan himself for disseminating such misinformation. Throughout this portion of the stream, Destiny makes clear his regret towards previously making "blanket statements of hate" towards police officers, argues similar statements are a really poor way of making evaluations, and reiterates that Hasan's video could be boiled down to "I really hate cops".
— Destiny on his prior statements regarding police officers
Destiny goes on to express his disdain for statements such as "abolish all prisons", "getting rid of all police", and "all cops are bad", arguing such unproductive statements seem to be prevalent in much of left-leaning rhetoric surrounding crime and police officers. Destiny further argues that there is "two sides to the issue" and "some level of crime that [must be] addressed", which individuals like Hasan tend to refrain from acknowledging in their critiques. Before Destiny can continue his list of grievances with Hasan's video, Hasan himself joins the call.
Highlights
0:18 Destiny reads the results from a poll he submitted to his chat before viewing Hasan's "You don't want Kopmala Harris" video. The poll initially showed that 16% of people were very-favorable towards her, now down to 9%. 60% were kind of luke warm on her, now down to 43%. 24% hated her before, now it's up to 48%.
0:52 Destiny explains why he feels a lot of the statements that people like Hasan have made about establishment democrats have not been made in good faith. Destiny elaborates that he doesn't feel like the grievances several "lefties" appear to have about "things staying the same" if Biden gets elected are warranted.
1:15 Destiny points to how people are critical of him for critiquing Hasan's "investigative reporting" methods.
1:24 Destiny recounts how he stumbled across Hasan's video, and took not of every claim to fact check. Destiny then points how how every claim about Kamala identified in Hasan's video is either dead wrong or horribly stretched out of what's actually happening.
2:18 Destiny describes how he questioned if he was projecting his hatred of lefties onto Hasan, and wrote down the claims Hasan made to ensure he wasn't doing so.
2:53 Destiny plays an example of a bad-faith claim Hasan made: Hasan asserts Kamala supported a law in 2008 that forced schools to turn over undocumented students over to ICE. Destiny explains that while there is no information regarding the law Hasan is referring to, there is a law in that same year which allowed for illegal immigrants charged with a crime to be referred to ICE. Destiny goes on to explain that the law originated following an illegal immigrant being charged with the murder of three individuals.
4:34 A chatter informs Destiny that schools did in fact give up illegal immigrants to ICE. Destiny replies that he could not find any information relating to that.
5:55 Destiny explains that Harris regrets her support for the bill, and that individuals misinterpreting the actual context of the story do the left a disservice.
6:36 A chatter asks if Destiny thinks this video is worse than any other critiquing Harris, given that Kamala is one of the "weirdest" areas of left-wing extreme bias. Destiny replies that it's not weird at all if one takes into account that people on the left hate cops, and that Hasan's video could be boiled down to "I really hate cops".
9:04 Destiny plays a position Hasan gave regarding Harris' truancy policy.
10:34 Destiny responds to Hasan's truancy position.
14:01 Destiny replays Hasan's truancy position, and argues Hasan is presenting Harris's position in an overtly negative light.
15:17 Destiny declares his intent to ban chatters who are "insanely anti-cop" in dgg.
16:23 Hasan describes Harris using a "gestapo" force to threaten homeless people.
17:34 Destiny responds to Hasan's claim that Harris should have sought other ways to bolster individuals in her position.
20:12 Destiny draws a parallel between left-leaning individuals arguing against his position in dgg and providing irrelevant links to alt-righters "shotgunning out a million articles relating to IQ" during a debate on race-realism.
21:36 Destiny expresses his desire for better discussions, and argues Hasan's assertion that "Kamala is sending the gestapo" is not very interesting to discuss.
23:05 Destiny discusses how he is no longer idealistic with regards to policy making in the US.
27:28 A chatter informs Destiny that the truancy policy would disproportionately affect people of color, which is why several people had problems with it. Destiny counters that this is not necessarily bad, especially if people of color were having issues sending their children to school.
32:08 Destiny says he regrets making "blanket statements of hate" towards police officers.
34:28 Destiny argues that of all the potential applications of utilizing police officers, using them to encourage parents to send their children to school is the most preferable for a positive community impact.
35:21 Destiny argues with a chatter who claims parents who don't feed their children should be arrested following Destiny's logic. Destiny counters with another hypothetical of potentially using the police to force parents to vaccinate their children.
36:16 Destiny discusses child protectives services role in truancy.
37:30 Destiny discusses why homicide and gang detectives might have volunteered to visit homes of truants.
39:22 A chatter quotes MLK's "white moderate" speech to Destiny, and accuses him of pushing "cop apologia". Following this, Destiny discusses how "nobody wants to do anything ever", and states that he empathizes with the difficulties of politicians like Harris in trying to effect change within their means.
41:05 A chatter argues that Harris attempted to address issues outside her purview as a DA. Destiny explains that the actions Harris took were completely within her purview as a DA, arguing that she was attempting to "make her city a safer place". Destiny further argues that Harris managing her police force in a manner that contributed to more kids going to school was "not the worst thing in the world".
42:10 Destiny explains why he's become increasingly sympathetic towards policy makers. Destiny provides the US intervening in foreign conflicts as an example.
44:23 Destiny provides a hypothetical where US interventionism may be justified. Destiny goes on to discuss the potential for influence vacuums if the US does not intervene in certain global conflicts.
46:45 Destiny discusses his evolving view with regards to US interventionism and the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Destiny describes how he was once in support of abandoning the agreement, but now he feels the loss of various protections, and the bolstering of China on the world-stage as the US became more isolated, was not ideal.
50:42 Destiny discuses his disdain for anti-cop rhetoric, and the lack of consideration for "both sides" with regards to criminal issues.
Destiny Confronts Hasan For Twitter Misinfo, Debate Breakdown
Approximately one hour into Destiny recounting of his grievances with Hasan's "You Don't Want Cop-Mala Harris" video, Hasan himself joins the stream.[4] Upon joining the stream, Hasan asks Destiny what his issues were with the video. Destiny responds by offering to go through every one of his grievances, and Hasan agrees. Of note, Destiny did not have access to his typical headset/microphone setup, and was unable to raise his voice throughout the debate as he was away from home. This, in conjunction with Hasan's personal refusal to use a headset, resulted in several instances of Hasan inadvertently speaking over Destiny. While Destiny had several grievances prepared to discuss with Hasan, the pair only managed to discuss three topics:
Destiny begins the conversation by informing Hasan that he feels his video is extremely one-sided against Harris, and not fairly presented. He begins by addressing the first claim in Hasan's video: Whether Harris supported a law that forced school to report undocumented felonious children over to ICE. Upon Destiny's explanation of the lack of involvement by schools in the law, Hasan quickly agrees that schools were not responsible for reporting these children. Nonetheless, Hasan maintains that undocumented misdemeanant school children being deported without being charged remains an issue, especially if schools are reporting these children to the police. Hasan then walks back his prior claim, and argues that schools should bear some the blame for reporting these children to the authorities if they commited a crime. Destiny responds with the following:
Hasan counters that an officer planted at a school with the capability of reporting a felonious children olver to ICE is not functionally different than the school themselves reporting the children. Destiny asks if Hasan's solution would be to remove police officers from school, Hasan argues that would be a valid solution, and Destiny chooses to move on to the next topic.
Did Kamala Harris prosecute fairly?
Do Kamala Harris's donors make her untrustworthy?
Conclusion
Upon the calls conclusion, Destiny offered to do a second debate on the subject should Hasan wish, and Hasan agreed. From there, the two seemingly departed from the call amiably.
:10 Hasan asks what Destiny's issue was with his video. Destiny replies that following a three hour flight in which he viewed the video in it's entirety, he concluded that it was extremely one-sided and not fairly presented.
0:41 Following Destiny's offer to walk through the video with Hasan , Hasan replies that Destiny could simply give his exact grievances with the video to "tackle one-by-one".
1:01 Hasan summarizes his perspective on Kamala Harris, arguing she is over-prosecutorial and has repeatedly walked back statements made on the debate stage.
2:43 Destiny points to the first claim Hasan made in the video, that Kamala was forcing schools to refer undocumented students to immigrations and customs enforcement. Destiny informs Hasan that this claim was false, and was more concerning immigrants who were charged with crimes.
3:02 Hasan responds that the law Destiny is referring to would allow for undocumented workers who were protected via sanctuary cities to now be arrested. Destiny restates his claim, Hasan states he does not recall entirely what he said, and the two go over the exact timestamp the claim was made together.
4:35 Hasan informs Destiny that the majority of his points were gathered from a twitter thread containing things he already knew about.
5:23 Hasan and Destiny go to the point in the video where Hasan made his claim.
6:21 Destiny explains the goal of the law Hasan is referring to: Undocumented individuals who were charged with a crime would be referred to ICE, with no school involvement. Hasan eventually agrees that he made a mistake in the video when stating that schools aided in the deportation of students.
8:32 While Hasan concedes to making a mistake in the video, he maintains that Harris still supported the policy which still allowed students to be deported.
10:13 Hasan argues that school students were still being reported for misdemeanors without being charged for a crime. Destiny counters that Hasan wouldn't blame a school if cops were to come in and kill students. Hasan counters that the school would bear some of the blame as they were the ones who called the police.
12:16 Hasan argues that cooperating with authorities still places the school at blame, and informs Destiny he can't read DGG chat anymore without getting irritated.
13:48 Destiny argues that schools are supposed to cooperate with authorities. Hasan counters that sanctuary cities exist where schools are explicitly not permitted to cooperate with authorities. Destiny argues that while schools aren't typically involved with referring children over to ICE, they still generally cooperate with authorities.
15:40 Upon Hasan referring to misdemeanant children being reported to ICE, Destiny corrects Hasan and informs him that felonious children were in fact being reported.
15:59 Hasan argues that Destiny is bogging the conversation down in pedantics, and that they should be focusing on Harris lying about her perspective on the law.
16:53 Destiny asks Hasan once more if he understands the difference between schools reporting children to ICE versus reporting them to the police. Hasan acknowledges the difference and the conversation continues.
21:03 Destiny reiterates that the primary issue is Hasan statement implying schools are reporting children to ICE. Hasan argues that he followed this statement up with context immediately after saying it, Destiny informs Hasan this is irrelevant.
21:40 Hasan argues that a cop being stationed at a school is not functionally different than the schools themselves reporting the felonious children. Destiny asks if Hasan's solution would be to remove police officers from school, Hasan argues that would be a valid solution, and Destiny chooses to move on to the next topic.
Destiny and Hasan create reddit threads following the debate WIP
↑ Last Night On Destiny. (2024, February 7). Destiny Confronts Hasan For Twitter Misinfo, Bridge In FLAMES! | DEBATE BREAKDOWN. YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvKIFQ3yh-c
