JonTron

Jonathan 'JonTron' Jafari

Jonathan Aryan Jafari, also known as JonTron, is an American YouTuber, comedian, and media reviewer.

On Stream appearance and Controversy WIP

Destiny debates JonTron on immigration and assimilation WIP

JonTron agreeing to come on stream for a debate with Destiny(the suspended user). Also featuring 4THOT.

On March 12, 2017 JonTron tweeted out a defense to a quote from Iowa Representative Steve King, who tweeted in regards to the United States' immigration policy: "We can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies." JonTron's initial defense of the tweet was the following: "Wow, how scandalous, Steve King doesn't want his country invaded by people who have contempt for his culture and people! NAZI!!!". JonTron would go beyond that initial defense for some time(4 hours) and soon crossed paths with Destiny on twitter. After some back and forth JonTron eventually agreed to come onto Destiny's stream for a debate.

The debate occurred on Destiny's channel and went on for one hour and eighteen minutes. As the conversation begins, JonTron checks his mic, cracks some jokes, and even compliments Destiny on his looks. Destiny explains his interest in "cultural issues", mentioning its current popularity and his ongoing discussions on his stream, referencing Brexit and Trump's presidency as examples. He further notes that the "gaming" community often leans a particular way on these topics, especially after Gamergate, and suggests that JonTron seems to have gravitated towards that perspective, specifically on immigration and cultural matters. Destiny then expresses his concern about JonTron holding such a viewpoint, especially considering his vast audience. JonTron responds, saying he doesn't find his perspective troubling. In fact, he's more concerned that people find it troubling in the first place, as he does not find such a perspective to be very controversial. He goes on to say that "staying on the fence", and "avoiding conflict" in such polarizing times is pointless.

JonTron asks Destiny what he finds "so troubling" with his perspective on cultural issues. Destiny responds that the general defense of "American Culture" from the sources he's read defending JonTron's point, tends to boil down to: "I think that this thing is better because it's majority white, and I don't want that to change...". JonTron responds by stating this is not his "core-argument", and that his main argument is that "no other nation would voluntarily change it's demographics". JonTron continues to press this point, saying that demographics are important as they provide an easy way of "identifying who's the problem". Destiny counters this, stating the United States is unique in it's identity, and doesn't truly have an ethnic background tied to the country and highlights the varying Eurocentric backgrounds that makeup a lot of the American population. JonTron then claims the U.S. is historically a "European Nation." Destiny disputes this, noting historical discrimination against Italians and Irishmen in the U.S, and cites a slur used to refer to Irish Americans. JonTron responds that these people are "still European", and Destiny(noticing that JonTron has missed the point of his argument), points out that these people were not seen as such historically in the United States and still faced prejudice.

JonTron makes the argument that "we weren't there at the time" this prejudice occurred, and handwaves the argument of Italian/Irish prejudice as "bullshit". Destiny, seeing JonTron has missed the crux of his argument once again, restates his position that as time progresses the definition of what it means to be an American becomes more inclusive of diverse cultural backgrounds. Destiny further argues that, given this assumption, the strong pushback on who can belong to that demographic seems odd. JonTron then points the blame towards the "extreme left" for bringing identity politics to the fore by assigning "white and black" to certain areas, and goes on to say that a "nation is supposed to be bound by at least culture, if not genetics". Destiny takes issue with this point, and cites Jim Crow Laws for having a greater impact on identity politics, moreso than anything the left has done in modern politics. He goes on so say that identity politics have been part of the national identity for minorities in the United States since the country's inception. JonTron then responds that these plays at identity politics are not on the same level(implying that modern levels are worse than anything that happened during the JimCrow era), and that people are "still managing to create divisions between themselves".

Destiny puts forth the claim that divisions exist between these diverse groups, for reasons not necessarily of their own doing. He cites the disproportionate number of African Americans in prison and the underrepresentation of females in certain workplace roles. JonTron cuts Destiny off, pointing out that this argument implies "white people caused them to be in those places", and "these people have no agency of their own". In response, Destiny asks JonTron whom he believes is behind the Jim Crow laws and emphasizes that blaming white people for some of these issues isn't as ridiculous as JonTron portrays. Destiny tempers this position, stating he does not believe there is a need to jail white people, pay reparations, or engage in "white-guilt" behavior, but there should be some acknowledgement of why these issues exist. Destiny then goes on to point out the irony in people on JonTron's side arguing about "reverse racism", and "white genocide" when individuals who have lived through some forms of legal discrimination are still around today, and barely over 60 years old in some cases. JonTron responds, stating these arguments are one-sided, and that the argument "whites are the primary cause of disfunction in certain communities" should not hold up "decade after decade". Destiny responds once again that legal discrimination tactics such as Jim Crow did not happen so long ago, to which JonTron counters that "there are people that are 18 years old committing a disproportionate amount of crime, and they were born after me..." JonTron follows this up, stating people don't truly wish to have a conversation, and just want to blame whites for all their issues.

Destiny argues that one's background critically shapes an individual and provides two examples. He cites one family that experienced little to no outside discrimination, especially not from the legal discrimination of Jim Crow. He also mentions another family directly affected by those laws, highlighting how little modern day individuals are removed from that era. JonTron tries to steer the conversation towards riots and problems in European countries related to ethnic diversity. However, Destiny counters this by saying he isn't equipped to discuss the complexities of European countries and prefers to keep the discussion centered on the United States. Destiny pushes back once more, stating he does not believe African Americans are entirely blameless for their current position in society, noting however that witnessing "internet celebrities getting together talking about how irresponsible black people are" when these individuals are born into very disadvantaged positions(i.e. single parent households) is very disheartening. JonTron responds, stating that he of course does not accept this bigoted position, and makes the claim that he is simply making the argument that whites should not be okay with becoming a minority in a country their ancestors built. Destiny asks JonTron to pause on this point. Emphasizing a need on a broader scale to acknowledge the problems in these communities, for there ever to be hope in fixing them. He further points out that expecting black people to "just fix themselves" in one generation is unrealistic, especially given the centuries of oppression they have faced.

JonTron reiterates he is unsure why other people should bear the responsibility of assisting minority groups, and implies Destiny thinks these individuals have no agency. Destiny counters this, stating that we live in an unprecedented era of civilization where helping/coexisting with one another, lifting people out of poverty, and "when everyone in the United States does better, everyone does better". JonTron replies that he of course agrees with this, to which Destiny asks why he initially questioned the need to help minority groups.

Aftermath of JonTron's debate with Destiny WIP

This conversation was quite the turning point in Destiny's streaming career, and cemented his position(for some time) as a "lefty" streamer willing to engage the right. Throughout the conversation, whenever Destiny presented a coherent logical argument, called JonTron out for a misstep, or cited a statistic, JonTron either derailed the conversation to a different topic or laughed off the questions/arguments. Those on the left lauded Destiny for his performance^{[citation needed ]}, while those on the right were hypercritical of Destiny's "debate tactics".^{[citation needed ]}

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