Hasan and Destiny Break Up Over Kamala Misinformation: Difference between revisions
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Destiny: ''I feel like you went to a really nice school and you have no fucking idea like how dangerous some places...'' | Destiny: ''I feel like you went to a really nice school and you have no fucking idea like how dangerous some places...'' | ||
Hasan: ''No I didn't. I went to school in Turkey and in really fucking shitty neighborhoods as well... '' | Hasan: ''No I didn't. I went to school in Turkey and in really fucking shitty neighborhoods as well, we never had cops...It's mind boggling to me that Americans legitimately believe that we need police officers inside of schools.'' | ||
|name=[https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1355 Hasan debating the necessity of cops in schools with Destiny]}} | |name=[https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1355 Hasan debating the necessity of cops in schools with Destiny]}} | ||
Destiny argues that other schools don't have schools shootings as frequently | |||
=== Did Kamala Harris prosecute fairly? === | === Did Kamala Harris prosecute fairly? === | ||
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* [https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1263 21:03] Destiny reiterates that the primary issue is Hasan statement implying schools are reporting children to ICE. Hasan argues that he followed this statement up with context immediately after saying it, Destiny informs Hasan this is irrelevant. | * [https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1263 21:03] Destiny reiterates that the primary issue is Hasan statement implying schools are reporting children to ICE. Hasan argues that he followed this statement up with context immediately after saying it, Destiny informs Hasan this is irrelevant. | ||
* [https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1310 21:40] Hasan argues that a cop being stationed at a school is not functionally different than the schools themselves reporting the felonious children. Destiny asks if Hasan's solution would be to remove police officers from school, Hasan argues that would be a valid solution, and Destiny chooses to move on to the next topic. | * [https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1310 21:40] Hasan argues that a cop being stationed at a school is not functionally different than the schools themselves reporting the felonious children. Destiny asks if Hasan's solution would be to remove police officers from school, Hasan argues that would be a valid solution, and Destiny chooses to move on to the next topic. | ||
* [https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1444 24:04] Hasan argues that schools outside of the United States do not have police officers stationed at schools. Destiny counters that schools outside of the US don't tend to have school shooting, Hasan argues this is a recent phenomena, and Destiny responds "wait, when was Columbine?" | |||
* [https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1502 25:02] Hasan argues that the presence of an officer at a school is not conducive to a learning environment. | |||
* [https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1549 25:49] Destiny posits a hypothetical to Hasan: If an undocumented child was arrested in a mall for stealing, and then subsequently reported to ICE, would the mall be the one responsible for child being reported to ICE? Hasan argues that this example is incongruent given that malls are public, Destiny responds that Hasan has it backwards and that schools are public and malls are privately owned. Hasan maintains his position irregardless, and argues that having police officers in a mall is way more reasonable than having police officers in a school. | |||
* [https://youtu.be/qvKIFQ3yh-c?t=1682 28:02] Hasan argues that the policy Harris supported is bad given that it allowed for children to be deported based off charges and not convictions, Destiny agrees but maintains that Hasan erroneously stated in the video that schools were responsible for the deportation of these children. | |||
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Revision as of 17:15, 24 August 2024
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On July 9, 2019 Destiny and Hasan had a very heated discussion regarding American politician Kamala Harris, leading to their first major fallout. [1] Following their onstream "breakup", both streamers created reddit threads regarding their takeaways from the discussion, and ultimately cut ties with one another for some time.
Destiny discusses Hasan's "You don't want Kopmala Harris" video. WIP
Before | After |
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Kamala is cool: 16% Lukewarm on Kamala: 60% Hate Kamala: 24% |
Kamala is cool: 9% Lukewarm on Kamala: 43% Hate Kamala: 48% |
This discussion arose following Destiny's viewing of "You Don't Want Cop-Mala Harris" on Hasan's channel. Prior to and after viewing the video, Destiny polled his audience(see right) to determine their favorability towards Harris. Following the poll's completion, Destiny found that his audience held a more disfavorable view towards Harris after viewing the video. Upon seeing the results, Destiny explains that he fact-checked every claim by Hasan made in the video, and ultimately concluded that Hasan was wrong in several instances and may have even created the video in bad faith. Destiny went on to chide Hasan for erroneously spreading disinformation about a potential democratic candidate during an election year.
Destiny provides the following examples of bad faith critiques made by Hasan throughout the video:
Topic | Hasan's claim | Destiny's critique | ||||||
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ICE | Hasan claims that Kamala supported a law in 2008 that forced schools to refer undocumented students to ICE.
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Destiny explains that while he could find no information regarding the specific law Hasan is referring to, he was able to find information regarding a law established in that same year which allowed for illegal immigrants charged with a crime to be referred to ICE(with no mention of schools specifically referring students to the agency). Destiny goes on to explain that the law originated following an illegal immigrant being charged with the murder of three individuals, and that Kamala has recently stated that she regrets supporting the law. A chatter later asks if Destiny thinks this video is worse than any others critiquing Harris, given that Kamala is one of the "weirdest" areas of left-wing extreme bias. Destiny replies that it's not weird at all if one takes into account that people on the left hate cops, and that Hasan's video could be boiled down to "I really hate cops".
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Truancy policy | Hasan claims that Harris instituted a harsh, punitive, and dehumanizing truancy policy towards low income and single-parent families which involved "Lock[ing] innocent black mothers up for truancy". Hasan goes on to claim that Harris incarcerated a single, homeless mother of three working two jobs because her children were truants, and then touted it as a success story. Hasan went on to critique Harris for sending a "gestapo force" of intimidating officers(like homicide and gang detectives) to "scare the shit out of a homeless mother of three" into ensuring her children attended school.
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Destiny argues that while he remains unsure whether Harris' policy was a net good or bad, Hasan's framing of the policy(that Kamala was sending a "gestapo force" to bully homeless women into sending their children to school) was overtly negative, unfairly framed, and did not accurately represent the intent or outcomes of the policy. Destiny pointed out that Harris's policy was intended to address a real issue—truancy—which is linked to higher rates of criminal behavior and poor outcomes for children. He argued that Harris's use of legal pressure was a way to compel parents to take their children's education seriously and to connect them with resources that could help improve school attendance. Destiny maintains that this is a positive, albeit potentially harsh, intervention, rather than a draconian measure as Hasan implied.
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Should Kamala have addressed the issues differently? |
Hasan argues that Harris should have sought other ways to bolster individuals and address socioeconomic issues in her district that did not involve criminal prosecution.
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Destiny argues that as a District Attorney, Harris's primary responsibilities included law enforcement and public safety, and therefore, it was natural for her to use those tools to address issues like truancy. Destiny further argued that Harris did not have the the power to create social programs, allocate financial incentives, or directly address broader socio-economic issues. Destiny maintains that Harris's role was limited to enforcing the law and using legal measures to address problems within her jurisdiction. Destiny felt that Hasan's criticism did not fully account for these limitations, and that Hasan unfairly blamed Harris for not pursuing solutions that were beyond her control as a DA.
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Destiny spends the next hour of his stream fielding questions from his chat and expressing his overall disappointment with individuals in DGG defending Hasan's seemingly unfair position towards Harris, as well as Hasan himself for disseminating such misinformation. Throughout this portion of the stream, Destiny makes clear his regret towards previously making "blanket statements of hate" towards police officers, argues similar statements are a really poor way of making evaluations, and reiterates that Hasan's video could be boiled down to "I really hate cops".
Destiny goes on to express his disdain for statements such as "abolish all prisons", "getting rid of all police", and "all cops are bad", arguing such unproductive statements seem to be prevalent in much of left-leaning rhetoric surrounding crime and police officers. Destiny further argues that there is "two sides to the issue" and "some level of crime that [must be] addressed", which individuals like Hasan tend to refrain from acknowledging in their critiques. Before Destiny can continue his list of grievances with Hasan's video, Hasan himself joins the call.
Highlights | |
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Hasan joins the stream
Approximately one hour into Destiny recounting of his grievances with Hasan's "You Don't Want Cop-Mala Harris" video, Hasan himself joins the stream.[4] Upon joining the stream, Hasan asks Destiny what his issues were with the video. Destiny responds by offering to go through every one of his grievances, and Hasan agrees. Of note, Destiny did not have access to his typical headset/microphone setup, and was unable to raise his voice throughout the debate as he was away from home. This, in conjunction with Hasan's personal refusal to use a headset, resulted in several instances of Hasan inadvertently speaking over Destiny. While Destiny had several grievances prepared to discuss with Hasan, the pair only managed to discuss three topics:
- The credibility of Kamala Harris as a Democrat.
- Did Kamala Harris prosecute fairly?
- Do Kamala Harris's donors make her untrustworthy?
The credibility of Kamala Harris as a Democrat.
Destiny begins the conversation by informing Hasan that he feels his video is extremely one-sided against Harris, and not fairly presented. He goes on to address the first claim in Hasan's video: Whether Harris supported a law that forced school to report undocumented felonious children over to ICE. Upon Destiny's explanation of the lack of involvement by schools in the law, Hasan quickly agrees that schools were not responsible for reporting these children. Nonetheless, Hasan maintains that undocumented misdemeanant school children being deported without being charged remains an issue, especially if schools are reporting these children to the police. Hasan then walks back his prior claim, and argues that schools should bear some the blame for reporting these children to the authorities if they commited a crime. Destiny asks Hasan if he is able to understand the distinction between schools cooperating with authorities versus referring children directly to ICE, to which Hasan counters that an officer planted at a school with the capability of reporting a felonious children over to ICE is not functionally different than the school themselves reporting the children. Destiny asks if Hasan's solution would be to remove police officers from school, Hasan argues that would be a valid solution, and Destiny attempts to move on to the next topic. Hasan takes issue with this, and the following exchange occurs:
Hasan: Why are you just laughing and saying we need to move on?
Destiny: Because that's just so fucking stupid, what do you mean? Do you just want to kick all police officers out of schools? Hasan: What do you mean? What do I mean? Do fucking schools need to have cops everywhere? Destiny: Some do, yeah! What the fuck kind of statement is that, of course some do! Hasan: abu..uhh..WHAT? Why? Cops should not be in any schools! I feel like I've heard you debate people a million times over about how it's kinda fucked up that we have cops in schools to begin with...what the fuck? Destiny: I feel like you went to a really nice school and you have no fucking idea like how dangerous some places... Hasan: No I didn't. I went to school in Turkey and in really fucking shitty neighborhoods as well, we never had cops...It's mind boggling to me that Americans legitimately believe that we need police officers inside of schools. |
Destiny argues that other schools don't have schools shootings as frequently
Did Kamala Harris prosecute fairly?
Do Kamala Harris's donors make her untrustworthy?
Conclusion
Upon the calls conclusion, Destiny offered to do a second debate on the subject should Hasan wish, and Hasan agreed. From there, the two seemingly departed from the call amiably.
Highlights | |
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Destiny and Hasan create reddit threads following the debate WIP
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/cbdj2w/on_bootyjudge/
https://old.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/cayg1e/if_destiny_wants_to_remain_morally_consistent_he/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/cgsvav/effort_post_rdestiny_v_rhasan_piker_hate_threads/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/ccvbmw/a_very_comprehensive_summary_of_events_leading_to/
Hasanabi And Destiny BREAK UP Aftermath, Hasan types in dgg chat while Destiny discusses their breakup WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCsvkP_sVQw
- ↑ Destiny. (2019, July 9). Hasanabi And Destiny BREAK UP Over Kamala Misinformation. YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLfAuWe3xho
- ↑ The image provided is a screenshot of Destiny posting the strawpoll to members of his chat. Following the closure of strawpoll.me, the links Destiny provided in these logs are now broken.
- ↑ Media:HasanDestinyKamalaChatterban.jpg
- ↑ Last Night On Destiny. (2024, February 7). Destiny Confronts Hasan For Twitter Misinfo, Bridge In FLAMES! | DEBATE BREAKDOWN. YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvKIFQ3yh-c