"I've never been more gaslit in my entire life..." - Destiny Debate ft. Hasanabi, TheSerfsTV, & More

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"I've never been more gaslit in my entire life..." - Destiny Debate ft. Hasanabi, TheSerfsTV, & More

On October 22, 2019 Destiny participated in a political panel hosted by Mindwaves. The panel featured Hasan Piker, TheSerfsTV(AKA Lance), Pxie, Ahrelevant, Bastiat, Kormantine and Cole James Cash.

First topic: Canadian Elections

Following a brief introduction from each panelist regarding their political affiliations and streams, Mindwaves presented the first topic: What does each panelist believe will be the fallout of a recent Canadian Election?. Bastiat, being of the opinion the election will likely be to the economic detriment of Canadians, argues the election has prevented the establishment of oil pipelines across the country. Kormantine takes issues with this, asserting that these pipelines would likely never have been established anyways as the Canadian government never received the consent of First Nations to establish such infrastructure, and repeatedly requests for Bastiat to stop arguing in hypotheticals. Bastiat counters that this argument is not hypothetical, points out that the land has already been set aside to lay such pipelines, and informs Kormantine that Trudeau had recently blocked a pipeline bill for $4.5 billion.

During the conversation, both Kormantine and Pixie claims that renewable energies are liable to take off some time in the not-to-distant future, thereby eliminating the country's need for fossil fuels and making any arguments for oil pipelines in the nation irrelevant. Destiny counters that such assertions are unfounded, and that anyone who suggests entirely replacing a nation's dependence on fossil fuels with renewable energies is unserious. Kormantine responds "I know you're not fucking talking right now... what do you know about my country?", to which Destiny sarcastically concedes that it may be possible that Canada has access to some secret alternative energies that nobody else in the world has. Kormantine goes on to assert that Canada is doing fine with their current exports, Destiny responds "doing fine isn't enough with everybody dawg". Before he can continue, Kormantine takes issue with Destiny's use of the word "dawg", and informs Destiny "you don't know me like that".

'"Being friendly, don't mean you're my fucking friend... That goes for some individuals in this stream... Being polite, and joking about certain shit that you know damn well you couldn't walk into a room full of people of color and joke like that, or say something like that... It's a whole lot of that."

— James Cole Cash

While the conversation was overall uneventful, it did provide a glimpse into the true intentions of some panelists joining the panel, of note:

• 2:35 When prompted to provide an intro, Cole states that he runs the "ghetto-news-network" and represents the "gangsta-left". In defining the "gangsta-left", Cole explains that he "doesn't play nice" nor "engage in civility, and will "call [anyone] out for actin' foul".
• 10:31 When asked about his feelings about the Canadian Election, Cole explains that the election taught him that Canadians are "very friendly" about their racism. Kormantine agrees with this, caveating that this racism tends to diminish when "black folks" confront white people about this racism.
• 22:39 Cole requesting to move on to the next topic.

Given the apparent desire of some panelists(primarily Cole James Cash) to move on from the subject, the Election discussion only made up the first thirty minutes of the four hour panel before Mindwaves moved on.

Discussion Timestamps

0:45 Panel intros begin. 1:05 Kormantine gives his intro, he describes himself as a Black Socialist. 2:35 Cole James Cash gives his intro. He explains that he runs the "ghetto-news-network" and represents the "gangsta-left". In defining the "gangsta-left", Cole explains that he "doesn't play nice" nor "engage in civility, and will "call [anyone] out for actin foul". 4:22 Destiny gives his intro. 5:02 Bastiat gives his intro. 6:02 Lance gives his intro. 7:01 Pxie gives her intro. 8:30 Lance describes the topic, explaining that a recent Canadian election was going to be a toss-up between conservative and liberals, and the liberals lost out. Kormantine chimes in and explains that the election was a resounding defeat for most parties involved(liberals losing 27 seats, conservatives gaining 32). 10:31 Cole chimes in, adding that the election taught him that Canadians are "very friendly" about their racism. Kormantine agrees with this, caveating that this racism tends to diminish when "black folks" confront white people about this racism. 11:38 Cole:"Being friendly, don't mean you're my fucking friend... That goes for some individuals in this stream... Being polite, and joking about certain shit that you know damn well you couldn't walk into a room full of people of color and joke like that, or say something like that... It's a whole lot of that." 12:34 Bastiat expresses how happy he is that Canadians were able to express their right to self-determination, and explains he is happy that the election has prevented the establishment of oil pipelines across Canada. He goes on to explain that as a result of this election, Canada will be forced to send their oil through the United States. 13:21 Pxie begins to chime in but is told to stop talking by Kormantine so he can get his point across. Kormantine argues that there are several reasons the oil pipelines can't move through the country outside of the ones provided by Bastiat. He explains that the oil pipelines would never have been established, given the lack of consent from first-nations. 18:22 Bastiat asserts that "pipelines in general are done in Canada". Kormantine once again argues that Bastiat is arguing in hypotheticals as the pipelines would never have been established to begin with, and Bastiat counters that the Trudeau had recently blocked a pipeline bill for $4.5 billion. 19:21 Cole describes Bastiat as "corny". 19:37 Mindwaves asks for Lance's perspective on the topic. Lance explains he doesn't know anything about this subject and wanted to talk about the election. Destiny chimes in that energy is important, and Bastiat adds that Canada's economic future for pipelines has been terminated. 20:55 Kormantine adds that Canada has recently invested in solar and wind energy. 21:20 Pxie asks for some clarification, explaining that she initially thought Canada was a service-based economy. Kormantine and Ahrelvant argue this seems to be true, to which Pxie adds that such a pipeline would not likely have a large impact on Canada's economy. Destiny adds that pain felt in an economy, would not be felt "all over" an economy. He explains that this pain is typically concentrated in specific areas, and the pain in those areas would be highly visible. He concludes that the pain in shutting down exports to oil, regardless how small that sector may be, would likely cause very visible pain to that area of the economy. 22:39 Cole sarcastically responds to Destiny, arguing they should "move the fuck on from this shit and get to the next topic". Kormantine adds he would have prefered to have this discussion with people who were more aware of Canada's situation. 23:23 Destiny argues that it is ridiculous for Pxie or Kormantine to suggest that Canada should replace all of it's fossil fuels with clean energy. Kormantine responds "I know you're not fucking talking right now... what do you know about my country?" Destiny sarcastically concedes that it may be possible that Canada has access to some secret alternative energies that nobody else in the world has. 24:02 Kormantine asserts that Canada is doing fine with their current exports, Destiny responds "doing fine isn't enough with everybody dawg". Kormantine takes issue with Destiny's use of the word "dawg", and informs Destiny "you don't know me like that". 26:03 Mindwaves asks the panel what other negative consequences may occur as a result of this election. Kormantine responds first, arguing the situation is not bad overall. He notes that the biggest fight to take place following the election relates to immigration policy.

Second topic: N-Word in private WIP

https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/dmjb18/clarifying_some_previous_events/

The topic list disseminated to panel members prior to the podcast. Of note, the list contains no reference to the "n-word in private" topic.

Following the uneventful conclusion to the discussion on Canadian Elections, Mindwaves introduces the next topic: Usage of the n-word in private. The topic was allegedly introduced following requests from both Cole and Kormantine prior to the beginning of the podcast, as they were both seemingly eager to confront Destiny on the subject. Upon introducing the topic, several members of the panel, Destiny included, can be heard laughing. Of note, Cole James Cash can be heard verbally celebrating the topic's announcement, and Kormantine states "that's the only one I came here for... let's fuckin' go".

Destiny's position

Destiny's position is that if one is not a racist, is in private, and is within the vicinity of individuals they know are not racist, it does not necessarily make them racist for engaging in such edgy jokes for shock-value. Destiny posits a healthy engagement with such edgy-jokes is possible, much like it is possible for individuals to engage in violent video games without becoming violent themselves.

Destiny vs. Cole James Cash WIP

Heading into the topic, the initial discussions were quite contentious. To start, Destiny and Cole spend some time holding a fairly unproductive exchange between one another. Following this exchange, Mindwaves would go on to criticize Cole and Kormantine for requesting the topic be placed on the list, and directly chides Cole for being inflammatory. Notable moments from this exchange include:

• 28:49 Cole requests for Destiny to "Look at the camera when you speak boy". Destiny retorts: "Don't call me boy mother fucker I don't know who the fuck you are".
• 29:06 Cole asks Destiny when the last time he showered was. Mindwaves and Destiny question how that pertains to the presented topic.
• 29:57 Cole informs Destiny he is displaying "a lot of Yakubian energy right now.
• 31:28 Cole implicitly threatens Destiny, and asks if he's going to TwitchCon. Destiny mocks Cole for this threat, and accuses him of being a wannabe gangster and cringe.
• 32:22 Ahrelevant provides his input on the topic, asserting he is fine with Destiny saying the word in private. Cole responds that Ahrelevant needs to "spend time with [his] own people". Mindwaves steps in, and ridicules Cole of accusing Ahrelevant of "not being black enough" to have an opinion.
• 34:34 Cole informs Destiny that he is "not built" to be stating such statements publicly as his "heart pumps Kool-Aid".

On the assertions made by Cole that Destiny deemed warranted a response, Destiny informs Cole that he makes jokes in private with friends he knows are not racist. Destiny continues, explaining to Cole that he has no right to dictate what is said in those private conversations.

Throughout the duration of Cole's short-lived time on the podcast, he is repeatedly scolded by Mindwaves and several other members of the panel for the brash and brazen method he went about discussing the presented topic with Destiny, especially given that the topic was suggested by Cole himself. Several of these interactions between Cole and Destiny typically involved him implicitly threatening Destiny in some manner, accusing Destiny of never stepping foot outside, requesting for Destiny to take a shower, or stating Destiny lacks empathy. This was routinely met with Destiny accusing Cole of being an "internet tough guy", and mocking Cole for the lack of meaningful contributions to the topic. Furthermore, any earnest response Destiny attempted to give to Cole was routinely interrupted by Cole himself. This continues for some time before Cole exits the podcast in frustration after being repeatedly warned by Mindwaves to engage in the discussion meaningfully. Shortly following Cole's departure, Hasan takes his stead.

Discussion Timestamps, Destiny vs Cole

28:20 Mindwaves introduces the topic. 28:49 Mindwaves offers Destiny the opportunity to speak on the topic first, and jests that his fellow black panelists may take issue with his position(Destiny being of the opinion that usage of the n-word in private should be permitted). When Destiny responds "ya think?" Kormantine questions why Destiny would respond with such a statement, and Cole requests for Destiny to "Look at the camera when you speak boy". Destiny retorts: "Don't call me boy mother fucker I don't know who the fuck you are". 29:06 Cole asks Destiny when the last time he showered was. Mindwaves and Destiny question how that pertains to the presented topic. 29:28 Cole directly asks Destiny why he refuses to acknowledge being racist. Destiny, posits a question of his own in response: "Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can say in my free time?" 29:57 Cole informs Destiny he is displaying "a lot of Yakubian energy right now, and once again requests for Destiny to admit to being racist. Before Destiny and Cole can continue, Mindwaves interrupts the two and criticizes the lack of productive arguments being brought forth by Cole and Kormatine. Mindwaves goes on to criticize the two for requesting the topic being placed on the list, and directly chides Cole for being inflammatory. 30:54 Cole asks Destiny how he addresses his position with other black individuals, and how he can claim to not be racist. Destiny responds that he makes jokes in private with his friends that he wouldn't make publically. Destiny goes on to inform Cole he has no right to dictate what he says in private conversations. 31:28 Cole implicitly threatens Destiny, and asks if he's going to TwitchCon. Destiny mocks Cole for this threat, and accuses him of being a wannabe gangster and cringe. 32:22 Ahrelevant provides his input on the topic, asserting he is fine with Destiny saying the word in private. Cole responds that Ahrelevant needs to "spend time with [his] own people". Mindwaves steps in, and ridicules Cole of accusing Ahrelevant of "not being black enough" to have an opinion. 32:50 Pxie chimes in, and asks Destiny why he believes saying the n-word isn't racist. Destiny responds that as a public figure, he does not platform language that is harmful or further entrenches groups of people. Destiny continues, explaining that when in private and surrounded by individuals he is sure are not racist, there are "edgy" jokes involving racist terms he would be comfortable making(e.g. jokes from a George Carlin Skit, or a Boondocks episode). Pxie retorts that Destiny saying he states these jokes in private to the public, defeats the purpose of Destiny's stance on racist words. Destiny counters that he never repeats these "private jokes" to the public, as such, it would not nullify any public stance he takes on such terms. 34:34 Cole informs Destiny that he is "not built" to be stating such statements publicly as his "heart pumps Kool-Aid". 35:06 Mindwaves gives Kormantine the opportunity to speak. Kormantine first asks for Mindwaves's name, Mindwaves responds "Ian", and Kormantine asks "Did you get what you were looking for out of this?" Mindwaves retorts that Kormantine and Cole came to him with the subject, which Kormantine denies. Kormantine goes on to describe the perceived incentives of certain individuals in the panel, and why a productive conversation could never be had; Ahrelevant being incentivized to agree with Destiny, Destiny being incentivized to maintain his position, and Mindwaves being incentivized to hold this conversation. Destiny retorts that Kormantine has described all discussions surrounding political issues. 36:48 Pxie remarks that Destiny does not typically debate to change individuals minds, but is mainly trying to suey the audience. Destiny agrees. 37:20 Kormantine asks if anyone on the panel "studies this"(sociology, history, etc) for a living. Cole responds in the affirmative, and Kormantine asserts that he has engaged in such studies professionally as well. Kormantine goes on to point to a study where it was discovered a real social harm arises when individuals sharing/overhearing racial jokes in private. Kormantine goes on to point out that several white individuals in America tend to not have African Americans in their social groups, and as such, nobody to inform these individuals to not make such racially charged jokes. He continues, pointing out that this occurs even with white people who do have black people in their friends groups. He provides the example of Destiny's ending of his friendship with Trihex over his decision to use the n-word in private, and accuses Destiny of being racist/emotionless. 40:14 Cole provides a follow-up to Kormantine's response. In his follow-up, Cole clarifies his prior assertion that Destiny does not leave the house, explaining that Destiny would never "keep that same energy in a room full of black folks". Cole continues, explaining that the "triggered" demeanor conveyed by Destiny is indicative of his underlying racist thoughts. Destiny cuts Cole off before he can continue, and counters that Cole has in fact been "triggered" throughout the duration of the podcast. 41:39 Cole asserts that Destiny treating "the one black person who tried to appeal to [his] humanity" in such a manner, is once again indicative of Destiny's lack of empathy. 42:21 Mindwaves cuts off Cole and allows Destiny to elucidate on his position further. Destiny goes on to criticize both Cole and Kormantine, accuses the two of "being down everybody's throat" the entire podcast and being "insanely aggressive with no provocation". 43:03 Kormantine denies ever being aggressive during the podcast. Destiny goes on to continue with his assertion, but is cut off as Kormantine states "as your father I demand that you address me with respect, I have no been aggressive". Destiny then asserts that he is "getting aids" from this conversation. 43:51 Bastiat states that any value to be had in this conversation was lost by Cole being overtly aggressive and unproductive. 46:24 As Destiny is explaining an analogy to Kormantine, Cole interjects and mocks Destiny. Destiny goes on to chide Cole for not contributing in any meaningful way to the conversation. Mindwaves shares this sentiment and requests for Cole to refrain from speaking if he has no worthwhile thoughts to share. Mindwaves continues, questioning why Cole would request the topic be brought forth if he would be unable to hold a discussion on it without getting worked up. Destiny agrees, and suggests that Cole take a coffee/smoke break. Cole responds by suggesting Destiny should take a shower.

Destiny vs. Kormantine WIP

Cole James Cash advertising his appearance on the Big Brain Podcast to confront Destiny alongside Kormantine.

In comparison to Cole James Cash, Kormantine took a relatively more subtle approach in his criticisms of Destiny's position. Kormantine's primary argument being that several studies have proven a real social harm arises from individuals sharing/overhearing racial-charged jokes in private. He contends that several white individuals in America tend to not have African Americans in their social groups, and as such, nobody to inform these individuals to not make such racially charged jokes. He continues, pointing out that this occurs even with white people who do have black people in their friends groups. He provides the example of Destiny's ending of his friendship with Trihex over his decision to use the n-word in private, and accuses Destiny of being racist/emotionless.

Despite previously celebrating the topic's announcement and proclaiming it's the topic he joined the panel for, Kormantine questions the presence of the topic numerous times. At the onset of the topic, Kormantine asks Mindwaves: "Did you get what you were looking for out of this?" Mindwaves retorts that Kormantine and Cole came to him with the subject, which Kormantine denies. Kormantine goes on to describe the perceived incentives of certain individuals in the panel, and why a productive conversation could never be had; Ahrelevant being incentivized to agree with Destiny, Destiny being incentivized to maintain his position, and Mindwaves being incentivized to hold this conversation. Despite this, Kormantine remained in the call for the duration of the topic's discussion.

Throughout the panel, Kormantine would frequently attempt to leverage his credentials to speak on certain portions of the topic from a position of authority. He routinely claims to study the subject for a living", and points to several pieces of literature(both physical and digital) which he alleges back his argument.

Discussion Timestamps, Destiny vs Kormantine

28:49 Mindwaves offers Destiny the opportunity to speak on the topic first, and jests that his fellow black panelists may take issue with his position(Destiny being of the opinion that usage of the n-word in private should be permitted). When Destiny responds "ya think?" Kormantine questions why Destiny would respond with such a statement, and Cole requests for Destiny to "Look at the camera when you speak boy". Destiny retorts: "Don't call me boy mother fucker I don't know who the fuck you are". 35:06 Mindwaves gives Kormantine the opportunity to speak. Kormantine first asks for Mindwaves's name, Mindwaves responds "Ian", and Kormantine asks "Did you get what you were looking for out of this?" Mindwaves retorts that Kormantine and Cole came to him with the subject, which Kormantine denies. Kormantine goes on to describe the perceived incentives of certain individuals in the panel, and why a productive conversation could never be had; Ahrelevant being incentivized to agree with Destiny, Destiny being incentivized to maintain his position, and Mindwaves being incentivized to hold this conversation. Destiny retorts that Kormantine has described all discussions surrounding political issues. 37:20 Kormantine asks if anyone on the panel "studies this"(sociology, history, etc) for a living. Cole responds in the affirmative, and Kormantine asserts that he has engaged in such studies professionally as well. Kormantine goes on to point to a study where it was discovered a real social harm arises when individuals sharing/overhearing racial jokes in private. Kormantine goes on to point out that several white individuals in America tend to not have African Americans in their social groups, and as such, nobody to inform these individuals to not make such racially charged jokes. He continues, pointing out that this occurs even with white people who do have black people in their friends groups. He provides the example of Destiny's ending of his friendship with Trihex over his decision to use the n-word in private, and accuses Destiny of being racist/emotionless. 43:03 Kormantine denies ever being aggressive during the podcast. Destiny goes on to continue with his assertion, but is cut off as Kormantine states "as your father I demand that you address me with respect, I have no been aggressive". Destiny then asserts that he is "getting aids" from this conversation. 44:35 Destiny apologizes to Kormantine for being aggressive earlier, and attempts to address Kormantine's assertion. As Destiny begins to explain, Kormatine cuts him off and firmly asserts that every study he had parsed through stated that individuals who say racial slurs in private tend to develop racist thoughts. 45:13 Destiny explains that while it doesn't surprise him that people who use certain types of slurs tend to develop certain opinions, he asserts it is possible to engage in certain humours in ways that can minimize such effects happening to someone. Kormantine cuts off Destiny once more, and argues every study he read that analyzed the scenario presented shows individuals will become racist regardless. Kormantine pulls up several physical copies of books in the process of making his argument, and states he could find no study that backed Destiny's assertion. 46:04 Destiny asks Kormantine if he would ban all violent video games. Kormantine responds by questioning the relevance of this analogy. Destiny continues irregardless, and explains that there was a meta analysis involving 17,000 individuals showing a massive link between violent video games and aggressive behavior. Following an interruption by Cole, Destiny attempts to elucidate on his position further before Kormantine interrupts once more asking for Destiny to state who the author of the met a analysis was. Destiny continues, arguing that while the link is undeniable between violent video games and aggressive behavior, he hopes that people would be able to be moved to engage in this media in a responsible manner, rather than outright banning the media. 47:48 Destiny likens the gaming study to the current topic. He argues that he would hope an individual,such as himself, who has become substantially less racist over time, should be able to engage in such "shock-value" humor in a manner that doesn't turn them into a racist over time. 48:46 Kormantine responds that he doesn't give a shit about why Destiny uses racial jokes in private, he explains his primary concern is Destiny's proclaiming of such to his audience.