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On April 4, 2017 Destiny holds a roughly two and a half hour long discussion with Vaush regarding the rise of Trump and communism. | On April 4, 2017 Destiny holds a roughly two and a half hour long discussion with Vaush regarding the rise of Trump and communism. | ||
The conversation starts with the two briefly touching on Destiny's recent debate with [[Jontron]], and the rise of backlash as a result of {{wiki|Gamergate}} (which they both take credit for accurately predicting). The two then focus on {{wiki|Donald_Trump|Donald Trump}}, and the rise of "horrifying" political discourse spurned on by the president in the form of subreddits like {{wiki|The_Donald|The Donald}}. Calling back to his prior conversation with Destiny, Vaush states he no longer cares for leftist "purity-testing" and claims he would accept even his ex-navy grandpa if he said "fuck trump". | |||
Over the course of the conversation, the two touch on the rise of fascism as a result of Donald Trump's presidency, and the pragmatic methods of addressing such a rise in the face of an otherwise corrupt political system. While they both agree that fascism tends to arise as a result of discontent among the working class of a society, a disagreement arises between the two in the form of addressing the needs of the working class. Destiny being of the opinion that the needs of the working class must be pragmatically addressed through incremental change such as steadily "getting money out of politics"(i.e. removal of campaign finance reform), while Vaush takes the position that capitalism itself is the issue, and should be positioned as the primary focus of their discussion. This conversation takes place for quite some time, with Destiny reasserting the prospect of the United States "decoupling" itself from capitalism to be a highly unlikely prospect, and Vaush continually stating that it is impossible to address the issues present with regards to the rise of fascism in the United States without at least acknowledging the present economic system and offering alternatives. | |||
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* [https://youtu.be/yWLrPvtPLbo?t=1341 22:21] Following a brief discussion on the rise of Nazi Germany as it relates to the rise of MAGA, Destiny cautions against such a comparison as Germans following WW1 were a disenfranchised group seeking a way to rise up by any means. Vaush disagrees with Destiny's historical framing, and the two discuss whether Germans after WW | * [https://youtu.be/yWLrPvtPLbo?t=1341 22:21] Following a brief discussion on the rise of Nazi Germany as it relates to the rise of MAGA, Destiny cautions against such a comparison as Germans following WW1 were a disenfranchised group seeking a way to rise up by any means. Vaush disagrees with Destiny's historical framing, and the two discuss whether Germans after WW | ||
1 would be considered a disenfranchised group for some time. Upon Vaush claiming that the US enacted similar punitive measures towards Japan, Destiny calls into question Vaush's sociology major. Destiny would go on to claim that Germans at the time would have latched on to any movement at the time, given their disenfranchised status. | 1 would be considered a disenfranchised group for some time. Upon Vaush claiming that the US enacted similar punitive measures towards Japan, Destiny calls into question Vaush's sociology major. Destiny would go on to claim that Germans at the time would have latched on to any movement at the time, given their disenfranchised status. | ||
* [https://youtu.be/yWLrPvtPLbo?t=1570 26:10] Vaush explains that what made the Nazi-party uniquely dangerous was it's ability to utilize the powers of the state, drawing a parallel to the MAGA movement and Trump. Destiny counters that one needs to address the source of a problem(e.g. with regards to black crime rates), and can't pick and choose where to drop it in this case. Vaush goes on to ask Destiny if he believes the rise of white-nationalism in the west to be a problem, Destiny answers in the affirmative. | |||
* '''[https://youtu.be/yWLrPvtPLbo?t=1741 29:01] Vaush states that a collaboration must take place between leftists and liberals, not between leftists and alt-righters. Vaush goes on to explain what he believes to be the origins of fascism, while it feeds upon the same systems as communism (alienation and discontent of the working-class) they both lead to very different results. Destiny responds in agreement, and that the prescription should be addressing the issues of the working class. Vaush interrupts Destiny, and exclaims : "Capitalism! If we got rid of capitalism there would be no more fascism." Destiny responds that he is not qualified to address that statement, and that such a statement is not worth addressing, stating capitalism will never be removed from the United States. Vaush responds with a hypothetical about society needing to regress 200 years, and Destiny expresses his exasperation in debating about theoretical societies that will likely never take place. ''' | |||
* [https://youtu.be/yWLrPvtPLbo?t=1844 30:44] Destiny asks Vaush if he believes the US will get rid of capitalism in the next 50 years, Vaush answers no, and Destiny goes on to explain that "getting rid of capitalism" is not a real solution to any problem they are discussing. Vaush retorts "how will we get rid of these problems then?" and Destiny responds: "though the systems that are in place". Vaush responds, alluding to the fact that the system has been hijacked by individuals willing to adopt fascism, and Destiny is too distracted by something occurring in the game he's playing to immediately respond. | |||
* [https://youtu.be/yWLrPvtPLbo?t=1935 32:15] Vaush asks Destiny, given the current state of a corrupted political system, how would he go about practically addressing the systematic issues at hand? Destiny responds that while it's complicated, the first thing that needs to happen is "campaign finance reform" and getting money out of politics. Destiny explains that these politicians are backing companies that financially represent them, rather than the American people, arguing this destroys the systems intended to ensure politicians operate honestly. Destiny asserts this is the reason he pushed for Bernie Saunders. Vaush retorts that it is very difficult for him to continue this conversation, as Destiny is alluding to symptoms of capitalism without wanting to address capitalism itself. | |||
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Ian Kochinski (born February 14, 1994), better known as Vaush, Veesh[1], Voosh, Vowsh, Vorsh or IrishLaddie, is an American left-wing YouTuber and former orbiter of Destiny. The earliest recorded interaction between Vaush and Destiny occurred in December 2012, when they discussed feminism.[2] Sometimes his hands are cold.
Background
Vaush began streaming on Twitch under the name IrishLaddie before rebranding to Vaush. He describes himself as a libertarian socialist and frequently covers topics related to left-wing politics, social justice, and online political discourse. He built a significant following on YouTube and Twitch through political commentary, debates, and react content.
Relationship with Destiny
Vaush and Destiny's relationship has gone through several distinct phases over the years. Their earliest known interaction dates back to December 2012, when Vaush(Then Irishladdie) appeared on Destiny's stream to discuss feminism and revolution. During the mid-to-late 2010s, the two maintained a largely friendly dynamic, frequently collaborating on political discussions and debate panels.
Their relationship became increasingly strained over time due to political disagreements, personal conflicts, and various disputes over online conduct. Tensions escalated through 2020 with debates like their confrontation over the morality of Kyle Rittenhouse in August 2020. The relationship reached its breaking point in February 2021 when Vaush called out Destiny over his PhilosophyTube tweets, leading to a heated debate[3] that effectively ended their relationship. By this point, the two had largely become adversarial, and the limited interactions since then have been more hostile than collaborative.
Fortress Arc
This section is a stub. You can help by expanding it.
Notable Appearances and on-stream reactions
| This list is incomplete, you can help by expanding it. |
03-30-2025 Destiny Reacts To Vaush Calling Democrats Psyops...
Description here.
02-09-2024 Vaush Gets Away w/ Wild Arguments In Israel Debate, Triggers Destiny
Description here.
10-05-2023 Vaush Attacks Destiny's Community After Coalition Panel
Description here.
10-04-2023 Infighting And Bridging Divides | Vaush, Emma Vigeland And Destiny Vidcon Panel
Description here.
09-30-2023 Debating Vaush, Emma Vigeland And Ryan Grim At The White House
Description here.
04-06-2022 Destiny Reacts To Vaush Manifesto Post
Description here.
02-12-2022 Destiny Confronts Vaush (Irishladdie) on History of Sexual Harassment
Description here.
10-30-2021 Destiny Debates Vaush On New Panel | Cops Vs Social Workers
Description here.
10-13-2021 Destiny Debates Vaush, Economics Professor And The Moderator (LIVE)
Description here.
06-11-2021 Destiny vs Vaush Debate Gets HEATED And ESCALATES Out Of Control...
Description here.
03-18-2021 Destiny And Vaush Hot Drop Into Chaotic Debate Panel
Description here.
02-09-2021 Vaush Calls Out Destiny For PhilosophyTube Tweets | DEBATE
Description here.
08-26-2020 Vaush vs Destiny Debate - Morality of Kyle Rittenhouse
Description here.
03-22-2020 You have no policy solution - Debate with Vaush
Description here.
12-01-2019 Is Taxation Theft? ft. Exskillsme & Irishladdie AKA Vaush
Description here.
01-26-2018 Political Violence - Debate with IrishLaddie AKA Vaush
Description here.
09-20-2017 Discussion with Irishladdie AKA Vaush
Description here.
04-04-2017 Talking with my buddy Vaush AKA Irish Laddie about the rise of Trump and communism(?) WIP
On April 4, 2017 Destiny holds a roughly two and a half hour long discussion with Vaush regarding the rise of Trump and communism.
The conversation starts with the two briefly touching on Destiny's recent debate with Jontron, and the rise of backlash as a result of Gamergate 
(which they both take credit for accurately predicting). The two then focus on Donald Trump , and the rise of "horrifying" political discourse spurned on by the president in the form of subreddits like The Donald . Calling back to his prior conversation with Destiny, Vaush states he no longer cares for leftist "purity-testing" and claims he would accept even his ex-navy grandpa if he said "fuck trump".
Over the course of the conversation, the two touch on the rise of fascism as a result of Donald Trump's presidency, and the pragmatic methods of addressing such a rise in the face of an otherwise corrupt political system. While they both agree that fascism tends to arise as a result of discontent among the working class of a society, a disagreement arises between the two in the form of addressing the needs of the working class. Destiny being of the opinion that the needs of the working class must be pragmatically addressed through incremental change such as steadily "getting money out of politics"(i.e. removal of campaign finance reform), while Vaush takes the position that capitalism itself is the issue, and should be positioned as the primary focus of their discussion. This conversation takes place for quite some time, with Destiny reasserting the prospect of the United States "decoupling" itself from capitalism to be a highly unlikely prospect, and Vaush continually stating that it is impossible to address the issues present with regards to the rise of fascism in the United States without at least acknowledging the present economic system and offering alternatives.
| Discussion Timestamps | |
|---|---|
1 would be considered a disenfranchised group for some time. Upon Vaush claiming that the US enacted similar punitive measures towards Japan, Destiny calls into question Vaush's sociology major. Destiny would go on to claim that Germans at the time would have latched on to any movement at the time, given their disenfranchised status.
| |
03-30-2015 Conversations with Irishladdie AKA Vaush
Description here.
12-26-2012 A conversation with Vaush (Irishladdie): feminism and the revolution
On December 12, 2026 Destiny hosts a roughly two-hour long Skype call with a Shit Reddit Says (SRS) subreddit member and self-described feminist, Vaush (at the time known as Irishladdie).[23] This conversation comes just months after ShitRedditSays had successfully pressured sponsors to get Destiny removed from ROOT Gaming in August 2012.[24] Despite this, the conversation is largely civil, and the two discuss topics such as rape culture, racism, internalized misogyny, and whether ShitRedditSays' "Project Panda" campaign against a creepshots subreddit was justified(the same sponsor-pressure tactic that had been used against Destiny himself). [25]
During the conversation, Destiny argues that Vaush and SRS's definition of "enthusiastic consent" would likely result in the majority of otherwise consensual sexual-interactions between partners to be labeled as rape, and greatly weakens the meaning of the word. Vaush responds that he has never heard a rape victim disagree with how fervently they persecute rapists, and asserts he is content with such standards as it allows for rapists to be more easily persecuted. A similar conversation is carried on throughout the call with Destiny pointing to various ways in which SRS paints instances of "rape" or other methods of consent violation with too broad of a brush, and Vaush countering that such an overzealous tactic is justified as it is more important to "do right" by the individuals suffering the most from such instances than appeasing their critics or avoid harming individuals who may inadvertently be caught in the crossfire.
The two would go on to argue about whether the world will inevitably become a more progressive place. Vaush being of the position that society will inevitability become more progressive. Destiny counters that if this is the case, there would be no point in discussing anything, and that such an assertion is deeply insulting to individuals who took great strides to enact changes during great "progressive" moments in history like the Civil Rights era. Following this explanation, Vaush replies by tempering his initial statement, stating that this "progressive bend" is only the case as long as progressives continue to "do their job".
From the halfway point of the call and onwards, the two hold a lengthy debate on the ethicality of the "mob mentality" tactics employed by SRS in taking down the creepshots subreddit (e.g. threatening advertisers and doxing the head moderator of the subreddit). Destiny argued that the organizers of the campaign had rallied large groups of people to destroy the subreddit without providing any explicit "objective basis" for doing so. Destiny would go on to assert that accepting "mob-mentality" tactics as a legitimate vehicle for political action (even on the chance that cause is truly morally justifiable) caused the movement to be essentially indistinguishable from any other ideological group claiming moral certainty without having to defend itself (e.g. Nazis). Repeatedly when Destiny presented this argument, Vaush would retort that ending the suppression of oppressed groups or enacting meaningful change in society is more important than watching for victims of "mob mentality" or attempting to maintain "intellectual honesty".
| Debate Timestamps | |
|---|---|
| |
External Links
References
- ↑ YouTube (July 7, 2024). "Finishing Chevron | Figuring out what it means to be an American :) (core values evaluation)". Retrieved 2024, August 6.
- ↑ YouTube (June 13, 2021). "2012-12-26 A conversation with Vaush (Irishladdie): feminism and the revolution". Retrieved 2023, August 25.
- ↑ YouTube (February 9, 2021). "Vaush Calls Out Destiny For PhilosophyTube Tweets | DEBATE". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (March 30, 2025). "Destiny Reacts To Vaush Calling Democrats Psyops...". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (February 9, 2024). "Vaush Gets Away w/ Wild Arguments In Israel Debate, Triggers Destiny". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (October 5, 2023). "Vaush Attacks Destiny's Community After Coalition Panel". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (October 4, 2023). "Infighting And Bridging Divides | Vaush, Emma Vigeland And Destiny Vidcon Panel". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (September 30, 2023). "Debating Vaush, Emma Vigeland And Ryan Grim At The White House". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (April 6, 2022). "Destiny Reacts To Vaush Manifesto Post". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (February 12, 2022). "Destiny Confronts Vaush (Irishladdie) on History of Sexual Harassment (Combined Perspective)". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (October 30, 2021). "Destiny Debates Vaush On New Panel | Cops Vs Social Workers". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (October 13, 2021). "Destiny Debates Vaush, Economics Professor And The Moderator (LIVE)". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (June 11, 2021). "Destiny vs Vaush Debate Gets HEATED And ESCALATES Out Of Control...". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (March 18, 2021). "Destiny And Vaush Hot Drop Into Chaotic Debate Panel". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (February 9, 2021). "Vaush Calls Out Destiny For PhilosophyTube Tweets | DEBATE". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (August 26, 2020). "Vaush vs Destiny Debate - Morality of Kyle Rittenhouse". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (March 22, 2020). "You have no policy solution - Debate with Vaush". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (December 1, 2019). "Is Taxation Theft? ft. Exskillsme & Irishladdie AKA Vaush". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (January 26, 2018). "Political Violence - Debate with IrishLaddie AKA Vaush". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (September 20, 2017). "Discussion with Irishladdie AKA Vaush". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (March 30, 2017). "Talking with my buddy Vaush AKA Irish Laddie about the rise of Trump and communism(?)". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ YouTube (June 22, 2015). "Conversations with Irishladdie AKA Vaush". Retrieved 2026, March 25.
- ↑ YouTube (December 26, 2012). "2012-12-26 A conversation with Vaush (Irishladdie): feminism and the revolution". Retrieved 2026, March 20.
- ↑ TeamLiquid (August2012). "Destiny and ROOT part ways". Retrieved 2026, March 28.
- ↑ Reddit (January2014). "Doxgate: The closing of r/creepshots and the Gawker exposé of Violentacrez". Retrieved 2026, March 28.