The "prelude" to the civil war, involved Brittany and Destiny discussing the "real-world" impact of streamers, and the potentiality for certain orbiters(e.g. MrGirl and Lav) to betray Destiny. During the call, several orbiters join including MrGirl, Lav, and Chaiery. Of note, Destiny explains he would be surprised if Brittany ended up betraying him in the future, and later says he can't imagine his relationship with MrGirl becoming tumultuous.
Prelude Highlights
2:24 Brittany asks Destiny what his goal is as a content creator. She later discusses her levels system, and what "being serious" as a content creator means with regards to real world impact.
6:59 Brittany discusses how she has trouble respecting MrGirl being upset with Destiny's lack of a response to "Chaeiry's mistaken accusation", citing his tendency to "shit talk" other individuals without regard for the implications. Destiny points out that MrGirl never levies fake sexaul assault allegations as Chaiery did.
11:55 Brittany questions why Destiny struggles to understand Lav's position about being anti-sexwork while doing sexwork. Destiny responds that Lav's stance was incomprehensible, and that despite being intelligent, she is too aggressive in her approach during debates. Destiny points out that he didn't start being mean towards Lav until she started being aggressive towards him on other platforms.
14:47 Destiny compares orbiters to a Denny's steak. Discussing how he temperes his expectations towards orbiters that are likely to betray him in the future.
15:28 Destiny discusses how he would be surprised if Brittany ended up betraying him in the future. He later says he can't imagine his relationship with MrGirl becoming tumultuous.
15:45 Destiny "stakes out" a risky position, asserting that even amidst their current disagreements about community management, he and MrGirl will always maintain a good relationship and would never backstab him(things ultimately did not turn out okay between them).
22:19 Brittany predicts that her friendship with Destiny will be one of the smoothest and best he's ever had, and they'll be friends for 30 years(they were not). She also thinks they'll never have a disagreement(they did).
31:29 Destiny talks about why he treats certain orbiters with "kids gloves".
34:15 Destiny discusses why he doesn't debate Brittany too much over her "levels" system. He later discusses what people mean when they have a "diverse" friend-group, and the benefits of understanding opposing views.
45:39 Lav joins the call following a discussion of Destiny's stream being a safe space for "unique" individuals. Lav states she wants to apologize for her behavior on a previous stream, and for mischaracterizing Destiny's audience.
50:25 Destiny discusses hooking up with Chaiery, and the drama that followed.
51:34 Chaiery joins the call, calls Destiny stupid, then leaves.
55:37 Dan describes why the current iteration of orbiters gets so much hate, citing their tendency to be "snakey".
1:01:26 Brittany and Lav debate with Dan regarding their trustworthiness.
Civil War
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Aba eventually joins the call, and the Orbiter Civil War officially kicks off. The primary contention starts between Aba and Lav. Aba claimed most discussions with Lav are pointless, as she will always fall back on being "young and naive" whenever she's proven wrong in a discussion. Destiny tries to moderate the discussion between the two, as he sees no issue in Lav's ignorance as long as she eventually admits fault. Destiny would go on to address each orbiter's(outside of Brittany) "problem":
Brittany has no problems, she's just an observer.
Chaiery has a problem regarding the fallout of her failed cancellation of MrGirl and animosity towards Lav.
Dan wants to stir up drama.
Lav has a problem with Destiny's community attitude towards her, nobody taking her seriously, and a general animosity toward Chaiery.
MrGirl is mad about Destiny's community(primarily the subreddit and it's moderation). He feels the subreddit is part of a system of discrediting other orbiters, and making them look bad.
Stardust has issues with the deterioration of her friendship with MrGirl as a result of her attempt to cancel him.
Destiny first addresses the issues with Lav. Lav accuses Destiny of tarnishing her reputation by labeling her as being young and naive, which leads the subreddit to echo this sentiment. Destiny responds, asserting that his intention is not to discredit her but to provide an explanation for the seemingly contradictory and highly irrational nature of some of her statements. He clarifies his stance on Lav’s behavior, describing it as manipulative/"gaslighty", and that she tends to feign ignorance on topics in order to escape accountability for her charged rhetoric
Destiny's contentions with MrGirl arise in the form of a debate on community responsibility. MrGirl and Lav argue that Destiny shouldn't call out the mistakes of smaller content creators on his stream, as it might turn his audience against them. For instance, MrGirl thinks Lav should have the freedom to call anyone a "dumb bitch" on stream, but believes Destiny shouldn't, because his audience would deride the "dumb bitch" in question. Destiny counters that he would never allow anyone to get away with poor behavior on his stream, regardless of their size. Chaiery, Pxie, and Brittany take Destiny's side, and argue that MrGirl and Lav are attempting to absolve themselves from all responsibility for their actions by blaming Destiny for his community's behavior towards them. Lav does not speak much throughout this portion of the conversation, and only chimes in to echo whatever sentiment MrGirl conveys.
As the discussion progresses, the group eventually discusses the relative "meanness" of Destiny and MrGirl. Destiny confesses that his own words are often "meaner", but he also points to the significant impact of MrGirl's way of framing certain issues to fit his own narrative. He compares his own insult towards Lav, calling her a dumb bitch, to MrGirl’s statement that Chaiery is "incapable of having a conversation." Feeling attacked in this conversation, MrGirl labels the other orbiters in the call "white blood cells" because they rally to counteract his points against Destiny. Throughout this portion of the conversation, several orbiters in the call point out that MrGirl arguments make it seem like he wishes to avoid all responsibility for his actions on stream by wishing to never be called out on any poor behavior. Near the end of this conversation, Lav decides to bring up REDACTED as an example of abused orbiters. Lav goes on to claim that REDACTED was a normal women that was tormented and demonized by Destiny's community. Destiny takes issue with this and the two discuss for some time until the call ends.
Debate Highlights
5:46 Aba asks Destiny what the point of having discussions with a 24 year old who doesn't know what she's talking about. Destiny responds he sees shards of himself in these individuals. Destiny elaborates that he only gets upset when these individuals make aggressive remarks(i.e. calling him bad faith) against his character.
7:56 Destiny expresses frustration with his community claiming he is too charitable towards Lav, and Lav saying he's not being charitable enough. Aba and Destiny later come to the conclusion that Lav is partially feigning ignorance on some topics to escape accountability for her claims.
11:15 Lav rejoins the call. Destiny asks Aba what he thinks about Sneako, and claims Sneako does worse than Lav with regards to engaging in debate and taking responsibility for their claims.
15:34 Aba and Lav debate. Aba elaborates why she feels Lav acts like a "useless retard" in her discussions, citing her taking strong positions on topics and falling back on being "young and learning" when proven wrong. Lav responds if Aba would prefer she just never own up to her mistakes, to which Aba counters he'd rather she never have the conversations to begin with.
17:27 MrGirl joins the call and attempts to defend Lav.
24:49 Lav claims she's been forced to acknowledge more of her mistakes than any other individual in the orbit, Destiny tells her to stop the hyperbole.
30:39 Brittany asks who everyone in the call trusts the most. Everyone picks Destiny, except for Lav who picks MrGirl followed by Destiny. Destiny says he trusts Dan the most.
34:17 Destiny summarizes everyone in the call's problem with one another. Brittany has no problems, she's just an observer. Chaiery has a problem with regards to her false allegation towards MrGirl and animosity towards Lav. Dan wants to stir up drama. Lav has a problem with Destiny's community,not being taken serious by anybody, and animosity toward Chaiery. MrGirl is mad about Destiny's community(primarily the subreddit). Stardust has issues with her and MrGirl's friendship deteriorating.
36:39 Lav takes issues with Destiny's characterization of "her problem", and says it's similar to MrGirl's "problem". MrGirl chimes in, and points to his issues towards moderation on the subreddit.
38:13 Lav points out that Destiny asked her to be more careful about her implications of him, yet Destiny is free to "shit talk" her and let his audience deride her. She points to Destiny accusing her of being young dumb and naive, and the entire subreddit parotting that point. Destiny responds that he is not descrediting her when she makes the claims, but a way of explaining why some of the things she says are so contradictory/ultra irrational. Destiny makes clear as to why she finds some of Lav's behavior to be manipulative, and elaborates why she found some of her actions to seem like gaslighting.
44:44 Lav complains about Destiny mocking her certain debates, and how such actions make the subreddit parrot that sentiment(i.e. calling Lav a "dumb bitch"). Destiny counters that he is simply matching energy, and would never let anyone get away with worse behavior just because they are a smaller individual. MrGirl takes issue with this,states he does not believe smaller content creators have as much responsibility on Destiny's platform, and the three debate.
48:01 MrGirl says "Steven(Destiny) in some ways, is our boss". He elaborates that whenever Destiny calls an orbiter a "dumb bitch", the community will parrot that same sentiment.
49:55 Chaiery and MrGirl debate. The panel discusses MrGirl's "war" on the subreddit.
53:39 Pxie joins the call. The debate on community moderation, and Destiny's onstream treatment of orbiters continues.
57:05 Lav claims people on the subreddit are posting doxing information about her. Destiny questions this, and this "doxing information" in question was really just Lav talking about her relationship on stream.
1:00:51 MrGirl claims Destiny never lets Lav finish a statement, Destiny disagrees and accuses MrGirl of gaslighting him. Lav eventually
1:05:18 Dan attempts to derail the conversation, then leaves after Destiny calls him out. Destiny then continues his point, and compares Lav to a young version of himself who would need someone to tell him how wrong he was on occasion. Destiny later defends against the accusation that he's ever called Lav "dumb", and points to instances of him pushing back against the accusation.
1:11:06 Brittany says he's unsure why Max and Lav need Destiny to protect them. She also questions why the two are so eager to give up any agency they may have to Destiny. Pxie chimes in, and claims MrGirl and Lav are attempting to absolve responsibility for their actions. MrGirl later claims he is not entitled, and Pxie takes issue.
1:17:22 Zherka joins the call, asks MrGirl where Destiny touched him, and then is promptly booted.
1:22:19 Destiny explains Pxie position after MrGirl misentrepts it(regarding professional and friendship boundaries).
1:29:04 MrGirl contradicts himself, he claims even if Destiny "fires" an orbiter their career isn't over. Which differs from his earlier point that certain orbiters only "exist" because of Destiny.
1:37:17 MrGirl claims he's "willing to have conflict". He later claims that Destiny wants the "benefit" of having orbiters but none of the responsibility. Chaiery takes issues with some of these statements, and the two discuss.
1:46:02 Destiny asks MrGirl to explain how he is his boss. Destiny states he never "hired" MrGirl, therefore he is not his boss. The two debate for some time, before the topic about "defining" the narrative around an orbiter arises once more.
1:52:12 MrGirl claims he did not ban Lav from his discord for being a pedophile, but for sexualizing minors.
1:55:43 MrGirl asks the panel to acknowledge that Destiny insults people more than him. Destiny admits he uses more "mean words" but points out that MrGirl has made some fairly extreme statements towards people as well. Stardust eventually points out that while Destiny does say harsh words on occasion, MrGirl's words tend to have more impact.
1:57:18 Dan gives an example of calling Stardust a moron, and nobody in chat caring. He then provides the example of stating that Stardust is incapable of having a hypothetical conversation, and points out that this is much more harsh.
1:57:55 Stardust and MrGirl argue for some time. Stardust admits her attempted cancellation of MrGirl was a huge mistake, and admits to apologizing many times. The argument gets quite personal, with Stardust mentioning her annoyance with how MrGirl "painted" her on his stream. MrGirl is very dismissive of everything Stardust says, and once they're argument concludes he accuses Dan of shit stirring.
2:02:35 Destiny steers the discussion back on track. He points out that while he tends to say more mean words to people, MrGirl's words tend to be more impactful.
2:03:42 MrGirl states that Destiny should never defend himself when an orbiter insults him. He goes on to say that all the orbiters in the call should shut the fuck up and stop defending Destiny.
2:05:40 MrGirl calls the orbiters in the call "white blood cells".
2:16:06 MrGirl says what Dr.K did to Reckful was worse than rape. Lav brings up REDACTED, and Destiny threatens to nuke Lav from orbit.
2:16:55 Destiny and MrGirl debate over personal responsibility and orbiter criticism.
2022 Shitshow OTY Award.