MrDeadMoth domestic abuse debate

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Domestic abuse - MrDeadMoth hits wife ft. MrMouton, Hasan, WhiteNervosa

Destiny reviewing an image of injuries sustained by MrDeadMoth.

On December 11, 2018 Destiny, while driving his Nitrous Blue Ford Focus RS, has a heated conversation with his chat regarding a domestic abuse situation involving fortnite streamer MrDeadMoth and his wife. During the conversation, Destiny asserts parents should never fight in front of their kids, maintains throwing items at one’s partner (as the wife did in the scenario) still constitutes physical abuse, and repeatedly berates chatters who suggest otherwise.

On December 12, 2018 Destiny reviewed the domestic abuse case from his home-office, and was eventually joined by several other friends of the stream. Individuals in the video such as MrMouton, Hasan, and WhiteNervosa had slightly varied focuses on the situation, but all came to the conclusion that MrDeadMoth bore the brunt of the blame and should not have physically retaliated against his wife's physical actions towards him. Destiny took the contrary position, stating that while MrDeadMoth physical response should not be excused, the wife's persistent approach, escalation, and starting of the physical altercation, should be viewed as provoking or exacerbating the situation. Destiny goes on to point out that the wife repeatedly engaged and re-engaged in confrontational behavior, which included throwing objects and verbal provocation, while MrDeadMoth attempted multiple times to deescalate the situation.

"I'm sorry.. anybody who defends the women here is a literal subhuman piece of shit... I don't even know how you can even begin to think that her actions here are remotely okay. She instigates every physical violence here, she starts every single time... And is the guy right for slapping her? No he's not, but every single time he backs off, she keeps coming back, not to talk... but to be physically abusive over and over again... People are linking pictures in chat... of the guy... this is apparently pictures he has taken of abuse. I don't even need these, because it doesn't even matter... this video speaks for itself."

— Destiny, 25:56

Discussion timestamps

0:00 Destiny starts his stream, and requests a chatter to link him the original video involving MrDeadMoth. A chatter then asks Destiny if he saw Hasan's stream, to which Destiny replies Hasan likely gave a take centering on physical proportionality between a man and a woman in domestic disputes. 1:26 Destiny begins watching MrDeadMoth's altercation with his wife. 7:40 Destiny plays a video where strangers have different reactions to a man physically encroaching upon a women and vice versa. 9:55 A chatter mocks Destiny for suggesting that cardboard being thrown at another individual could constitute physical abuse, to which Destiny replies with banishing said chatter from his community. 11:23 After a chatter claims "nobody beat the shit out of anybody in this video", Destiny considers permanently banning them, but instead addresses their point. Destiny then proceeds to ban a chatter who suggested he strawmanned the previous chatter. 13:43 Destiny remarks that the experiment run in a video he is reacting to(involving a man abusing a women in public and a women abusing a man in the same scenario), would result in more strangers assisting the women than the man. 16:47 Destiny begins analyzing the video, and notes when MrDeadMoth's wife begins to throw items at him. 18:57 MrDeathMoth slapping his wife can be heard in the background, Destiny pauses and breaks down the situation. 25:56 Destiny remarks that anyone who defends the women in this situation is a subhuman piece of shit. 29:25 Destiny once again details his disappointment with having to speak on men-rights issues he thought would be "givens" within his community. 31:12 Destiny states he was going to ban several individuals off he subreddit, but it was difficult to do so on mobile. He then opens up his subreddit to review reddit threads. 31:25 Destiny calls out Kelly Jean for comments attempting to defend the women, i.e. "The women was pregnant". Destiny then goes through several reddit comments he made to remind himself to ban certain subreddit users. 39:31 Destiny bans a subreddit mod. 42:14 MrMouton joins the call, and gives his position. 44:23 MrMouton states that the wife's actions were annoying, to which Destiny retorts her actions were abusive not annoying. 54:29 A chatter asks Destiny "why is it okay to downplay the violence?" Destiny responds "Because I give a lot of credit to people who are in a defensive position, versus an offensive scenario." 55:25 Hasan joins the call. 56:18 Hasan details his personal experience with physical abuse. 57:32 Destiny proposes a murder-rape hypothetical to Hasan. 59:03 Destiny counters the argument that MrDeadMoth should have shut off the game and de-escalated the situation. 1:00:24 Hasan claims to cover domestic abuse situations in the same framework as police brutality. Destiny disagrees with this framing. 1:06:16 Hasan puts forth that the reason most men lose legal cases involving domestic violence, is because men are physically superior. 1:10:32 Destiny lists off the poor behavior committed by MrDeadmMoth's wife. 1:14:24 Destiny asks Hasan what the "agro timer" on pregnant women is. The trio argue on the justifiability of physically retaliating against a pregnant women. 1:28:04 Hasan states the pregnant women was "hysterical" before the slap occured. 1:29:19 Destiny contends he cannot listen to many of Hasan's arguments as it appears he is making several excuses for MrDeadMoth's wife. 1:34:00 Destiny accidently molotovs himself and MrMouton in their game while Hasan defends MrDeadMoth's wife. 1:345:48 Destiny and Hasan debate the damaging ability of cardboard. 1:38:29 Destiny and Hasan debate the damage one could do against somebody "curled up in a ball." 1:39:54 Hasan wishes Destiny happy birthday. 1:41:22 Destiny jokes that MrDeadMoth should have retreated to a McDonalds. 1:45:36 MrMouton confesses he thought Destiny's take was far more extreme than what it really was. 1:54:36 Destiny says he regrets bringing up personal anecdotes during his arguments. 1:55:37 Destiny watches a clip where Hasan gives a more extreme position than stated in their prior call. 1:57:06 Destiny states that he believes Hasan is reasonably intelligent. 1:59:04 Destiny calls WhiteNervosa a dumbfuck for asserting MrDeadMoth's wife is receiving more hatred than MrDeadMoth. 2:05:27 WhiteNervosa joins the call. 2:14:41 Destiny calls WhiteNervosa retarded after hearing her position, concludes all men are evil and women can do no wrong, then ends his stream.

Individual Positions

Destiny setting several reminders for himself to ban subreddit users.

Destiny's position

Timestamp	Position
1:26	Shortly after starting his stream, Destiny begins reacting to MrDeadMoth's altercation with his wife. Upon watching the video in its entirety, Destiny goes on to describe the double standards at play when a woman physically abuses her partner versus when a man does so. He describes how when a woman physically abuses a man it is generally viewed as funny and deserved, while when a man physically abuses a woman it is horrible. Destiny points to several instances of abuser apologia related to this scenario, such as claiming the woman in the video was pregnant/hormonal or that the man didn't respond quickly enough to a dinner invitation.
16:47	Destiny notes MrDeadMoth attempted to deescalate the situation multiple times and was met with increasingly more violence in his attempts.
21:23	Destiny states that individuals who are physically abusive will not disengage from a situation by merely being told to "go away."
10:08, 29:33	Destiny claims that he typically never speaks on this issue (woman-on-man domestic abuse), due to thinking it was common sense to understand how bad such situations are. He highlights how this situation has dispelled that thought, as he has witnessed many alleged feminists applauding MrDeadMoth's harassment by his wife. He describes the double standard at play when people find it amusing for a woman to abuse a man. Destiny adds that he avoids speaking on this issue often because he finds many men's rights activists online to be quite abhorrent.
14:42	Destiny asserts that all domestic abuse is bad and that no physical altercations should ever occur in a relationship. He claims the fact that this situation is occurring in front of a child makes it even more tragic. Destiny states that the woman appears to be consistently instigating the situation, while the man attempting to play the game is doing little wrong. He concludes that if the gender roles in this scenario were swapped, the positions of many outspoken critics toward MrDeadMoth would be reversed.
28:02	Destiny describes the "reasonable answer" one should give when experiencing abuse, which is calling the authorities. He caveats this by stating: "All three times that I have called the police (in similar domestic abuse scenarios), they have blamed me for what happened. So when Rachel would get physically violent with me, three times... one time when my mom was even visiting. I called the cops three times, women police showed up, and they said it was my fault I was driving her to that."

MrMouton's position

Destiny's contention with MrMouton was primarily centered on whether or not the slap by MrDeadMoth was justified. Destiny maintains that if one were to get physical with their partner as a result of them instigating physical abuse, a slap is the most optimal form of retaliation. Destiny goes on to state that individuals put into stressful situations do not always act optimally, and people are placing an unfair amount of responsibility on MrDeadMoth in this situation.

Timestamp	Position
42:14	MrMouton eventually joins the call and shares his position. He claims to agree with most of Destiny's perspective but caveats that MrDeadMoth should not have hit his partner (a point which Destiny agrees with). MrMouton then states anyone who believes MrDeadMoth disseminated child porn or did nothing wrong should be executed on the spot. He further asserts that MrDeadMoth should have left the house instead of getting physical with his partner.
50:11	MrMouton claims MrDeadMoth "punched the shit" out of his wife. Destiny responds that MrMouton cannot possibly know this occurred and states he does not believe MrDeadMoth ever punched her. MrMouton continues by asserting the biggest issue was that MrDeadMoth acted in front of his child, to which Destiny counters that the fault lies with the wife for escalating the situation in front of their child.

Hasan's position

Timestamp	Position
56:08	Hasan, after claiming to have personal experience on the issue, describes his position. He argues that size is an important factor to consider during domestic disputes. Hasan states that the onus is on the male partner to refrain from resorting to physical violence in most instances of domestic violence, given the physical advantage most men have. He caveats this by stating that instances where the woman uses a weapon (e.g., a blunt object) would warrant physical retaliation by the male.
56:57	When questioned by Destiny on how one should counter being physically assaulted by their partner without resorting to more violence, Hasan describes curling up into a ball when being attacked by his partner. Destiny disagrees, arguing, "fuck that shit."
58:38	Hasan suggests that MrDeadMoth should have shut off the game and de-escalated the situation. Destiny counters that the situation is inherently ridiculous, stating: "she is using physical violence and intimidation to get her way, to force him to have a conversation he may not want to have, in order to deescalate a situation. I'm almost more in favor saying the guy is more in the right to fight her, than to fucking sit here and entertain the conversation..."
1:00:24	Hasan claims to cover domestic abuse situations using the same framework as police brutality, emphasizing that the male typically has much more force. Destiny counters that police sign up for such situations and receive training, while the average male partner does not.
1:02:37	Hasan argues that the best possible outcome for the scenario would be if MrDeadMoth turned off his PC and attempted to confront his wife. Destiny disagrees, suggesting that the best outcome would be for him to leave the room and call the police.
1:18:05	Hasan argues that he would never hit someone much smaller than him, especially a pregnant woman. Destiny pokes fun at Hasan for this stance and argues that MrDeadMoth's wife being pregnant places more blame on her for instigating and escalating the situation.

Whitenervosa's position

Timestamp	Position
1:59:04	Destiny calls out WhiteNervosa for stating MrDeadMoth's wife is receiving more hatred than MrDeadmoth himself. Destiny goes on to state that he already knows what her take is, and is already anticipating killing himself upon hearing it live.
2:05:03	WhiteNervosa asks Destiny why he believes the women is more at fault than the man. Destiny reasserts his position, stating the women instigated the violence and consistently escalated it. WhiteNervosa questions how MrDeadMoth deescalated the situation, and how his wife reengaged in physical violence. Destiny responds "he went back to his chair and put his headphones on", and "after he hits her for the first time, he sits back down, and she comes back and reengages, and re-escalates in the physical violence again." WhiteNervosa then asks "what does she do", to which Destiny describes how MrDeadMoth's wife "threw shit at him, threatened to break shit,[and] looked like she [was] about to hit him." Following this line of questioning, WhiteNervosa accuses Destiny of being overly charitable to MrDeadMoth. She goes on to state that Destiny has no way of knowing whether the wife was going to attempt to hit MrDeadmoth. Destiny responds that the wife is in fact threatening to harm MrDeadMoth, pointing out that she threw items, broke items, and MrDeadMoth raised his hands in an attempt to block a blow at one point.
2:06:54	WhiteNervosa asks Destiny if he believes MrDeadMoth escalated force needlessly after having items thrown at him. Destiny responds he does not know, to which WhiteNervosa further inquiries if it matters what items are being thrown at MrDeadMoth, and provides the example of a birthday balloon. Destiny argues it likely does not matter, and informs WhiteNervosa this take is "hilariously baby brained, I can't tell if you're ironically making it or just trying to win the argument." WhiteNervosa then attempts to argue "you wouldn't say cardboard is the equivalent of a lamp right?" Destiny responds "I don't know... throwing folded up cardboard at a person fucking hurts, go get somebody into a garage and fucking try it." WhiteNervosa attempts to cut Destiny off at this point to disagree, to which Destiny responds : "Can you please shut the fuck up and go try it before saying it doesn't hurt, like this is a hilarious fucking first grade take, first of all throwing folded up fucking boxes at people does fucking hurt, secondly that's not the only thing that we saw thrown at him, she's throwing shit hard enough to wiggle the camera in the room, and we hear stuff falling on the floor in the background, but if you wanna pretend the only thing she's throwing are balloons then..." — Destiny, 2:08:17
2:10:20	From here on out, the two deliberate for several minutes whether MrDeadMoth received ample enough provocation to retaliate against his wife. Destiny becomes seemingly more infuriated with the conversation as it proceeds, part in fact due to WhiteNervosa's tendency to place the majority of the blame on MrDeadMoth. This tension in this call eventually builds up to a point where Destiny throws his hands to his head(shortly after being killed in his call of duty match) and states WhiteNervosa is "fucking retarded" and ends his stream.