{{#ev:youtube|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0FnS1gFV4o|300px|right| '''That's SUCH a cop-out... - Destiny debates on Bernie or Bust ft. Pxie, Joshua4Congress & more'''}}
{{#ev:youtube|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0FnS1gFV4o|300px|right| '''That's SUCH a cop-out... - Destiny debates on Bernie or Bust ft. Pxie, Joshua4Congress & more'''}}
On April 20, 2020 Pxie hosted a political panel featuring [[Joshua4Congress]],[[Destiny]], [[ImReallyImportant]], melanie and [[Johnnyscarlett]].<ref>{{cite
On April 20, 2020 Pxie hosted a political panel featuring [[Joshua4Congress]], [[Destiny]], [[ImReallyImportant]], melanie and [[Johnnyscarlett]].<ref>{{cite
|source-name = Destiny
|source-name = Destiny
|year = 2020
|year = 2020
Revision as of 19:29, 26 December 2024
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Pxie is a Puerto Rican-American livestreamer and political commentator. She first appeared on stream with Destiny during a Mindwaves debate panel to discuss the justifiability of edgy language in private. Since that debate, Pxie has occasionally appeared on Destiny's stream to discuss hot-button political/social issues, and participate in informal conversations with Destiny regarding on-stream events.
Although Pxie's on-stream interactions and debates with Destiny have been infrequent as of late, she has played an active role in political advocacy initiatives by DGG. This role has included participating in DGG canvassing campaigns, and assisting in on-stream election coverage with Destiny.[1][2][3]
On October 22, 2019 Pxie participated in a political panel hosted by MindWaves. The panel featured Destiny, Hasan Piker, TheSerfsTV (AKA Lance), Ahrelevant, Bastiat, Kormantine and Cole James Cash.[4][5] Four topics were discussed during the panel, among those topics included a recent Canadian Election, usage of the n-word in private, the 2020 Democratic primary, and Mark Zuckerberg's secret meetings with Conservatives. The second topic, usage of the n-word in private, took up the bulk of the podcast's time and was by far the most tumultuous of the topics discussed.
Throughout the discussion, Pxie aligned more closely with those critical of Destiny's use of edgy language in private. Like others on the panel, she believed that Destiny's public acknowledgment of using such language in private undermined his stance on the harmful nature of "edgy words." That said, Pxie's neutral approach to engaging with Destiny's position, combined with her overall kinder demeanor, fostered a more constructive exchange of ideas compared to the more confrontational tone adopted by some of the other panelists.
Timestamps
32:50 Pxie chimes in, and asks Destiny why he believes saying the n-word isn't racist. Destiny responds that as a public figure, he does not platform language that is harmful or further entrenches groups of people. Destiny continues, explaining that when in private and surrounded by individuals he is sure are not racist, there are "edgy" jokes involving racist terms he would be comfortable making(e.g. jokes from a George Carlin Skit, or a Boondocks episode). Pxie retorts that Destiny saying he states these jokes in private to the public, defeats the purpose of Destiny's stance on racist words. Destiny counters that he never repeats these "private jokes" to the public, as such, it would not nullify any public stance he takes on such terms.
36:48 Pxie remarks that Destiny does not typically debate to change individuals minds, but is mainly trying to suey the audience. Destiny agrees.
59:21 The panel attempts to give Pxie an opportunity to speak on the subject, and Kormantine states she should not speak on the manner because she's not black. Despite this, Pxie is given the opportunity to speak anyways. She states that Destiny admitting to saying the n-word in private defeats the purpose of his stance as it might normalize such racially charged language for individuals in his audience. She continues, arguing that individuals may not always know if someone is making a joke or not when saying the n-word.
1:01:16 Destiny asks Pxie if she believes that rape-kinks are okay . She argues there's a clear difference, as individuals with a rape-fetish possess a mutually consenting fetish. Destiny counters that there is no true difference, as such edgy-jokes would only be shared with individuals he knows are not racist, in the same way individuals who share a "rape-kink" would know they're not actually engaging in rape.
1:04:43 Following Cole's departure, and Mindwaves becoming irate, Kormantine asks Mindwaves how he can be upset at Cole for being made to debate such a sensitive topic. He continues, arguing it is toxic to have African Americans come into a conversation such as this and "prove themselves". Mindwaves retorts that Cole wanted to have this conversation, and therefore had no right to complain about the presence of the topic.
1:06:32 Kormantine argues he would be able to have a discussion on this topic with Ahrelevant given that he is a fellow African American. He continues, asserting that white people are unable to be challenged by African Americans without getting frustrated. Destiny retorts that it is disgusting for Kormantine to "even pretend" that such grievances are even mildly related to the topic at hand.
1:07:05 Ahrelevant points out that Kormantine has told Pxie to be quiet several times throughout the podcast. Kormantine reiterates that anybody who is not black should not voice their opinion on this subject.
1:37:42 Pxie reiterates her belief that Destiny's stating his use of the word in private to the public is counterproductive. The two deliberate for some time.
2:10:15 Pxie argues the n-word should probably not be used in private or public, nor say that it's used in private.
2:53:56 Pxie addresses the race-play comparison. She admits to finding race-play to being "very sketch".
3:02:51 Destiny points out that the two "pro-private language people"(himself and Ahrel) were the only ones who allowed Pxie to speak, meanwhile Kormantine, Cole, and Hasan took every opportunity to shut her down.
Dehumanization & Edgy Jokes - Destiny Discusses ft. Pxie
"Dehumanization & Edgy Jokes - Destiny Discusses ft. Pxie
On October 25, 2019, Pxie and Destiny discussed the implications of edgy humor(specifically those containing racial slurs), and it's role in causing individuals to feel dehumanized.[6]
This conversation was brought on following the duo's difficulties in having a meaningful engagement on the same topic during a Mindwaves debate panel.
During the conversation, Pxie asserts that society(even within an egoist framework) should strive to eliminate oppression and dehumanization, as such systems ultimately work to harm all individuals within society. She extends this reasoning to argue against the private use of racial slurs or edgy language, asserting that such behavior can perpetuate the harmful subconscious biases inherent in all individuals, and cause those minorities whom the slurs are directed at to feel "otherized". In response, Destiny acknowledges that racial humor or edgy language can, at times, reinforce subconscious biases, especially when espoused by individuals without a formal understanding of their harmful nature. However, he maintains that individuals who are fully aware of the harm such language can cause may be able to engage with it without falling victim to those subconscious pitfalls.
After an hour discussing the topic, Destiny and Pxie ultimately reach an impasse, with Destiny offering to reassess his view entirely if Pxie were to provide studies pointing to otherwise non-racist individuals beginning to develop racist thoughts upon hearing a slur. Following this, the two depart from the call amicably.
Timestamps
0:52 Pxie shares a work-in-process flowchart and write-up she created in preparation for this discussion.
2:13 Despite not agreeing with egoism, Pxie states she intends to argue within it's framework. Pxie explains that as an egoist, one would want society to “get better” as it would benefit oneself. Pxie asserts that society should seek to eliminate unfair treatment of minorities and oppressed people, as such treatment would lead to marginalization, more crime, and less opportunity. Pxie concludes that all these things would hurt oneself in the long-run if left unaddressed, and therefore an egoist should seek to minimize harm towards these groups. Destiny responds that he agrees with this statement.
3:21 Pxie explains that if one seeks to achieve a better society(as described in the prior bullet point), one should do whatever one can to combat these systems of oppression. Destiny agrees, but asserts that the cost of enacting such harm-reduction should not overtly harm oneself. He provides the example of white people killing themselves in the effort of reducing harm towards minorities. Pxie agrees.
4:26 Pxie provides her definition of "dehumanization". She defines it as the process of depriving a person or a group of people from positive qualities and "otherizing" individuals. Pxie goes on to explain that a racial slur can contribute to this dehumanization, as it makes an individual feel excluded or demeaned on the basis of their race/ethnicity/nationality. Destiny cautiously agrees with this, explaining that this may be the case for the outset of a racial slur as an unintended consequence. Pxie agrees with Destiny.
5:32 Pxie circles to her primary argument: Destiny should not use edgy-language containing racial slurs in private.
6:56 Pxie states what she believes to be Destiny's position: Using edgy-language/racial slurs for "shock value" is not actual racism if one is not a racist. Destiny agrees, and argues that one could theoretically use a slur in certain contexts without necessarily harming the group the slur is directed at.
8:17 Pxie provides her rebuttal to Destiny's argument: She asserts that the continuation of such edgy-jokes/racial humour, even in private, can lend credence to the subconscious biases inherent in all individuals.
9:00 Destiny offers his perspective: Engaging in humour containing racial elements may reinforce subconscious biases present in some individuals, or even create those biases in some cases. He provides the example of somebody spending time on 4chan eventually becoming racist following their engagement with several jokes directed towards black people. Destiny posits that it is possible for and individual to reach a "level of cognition" relevant to this type of humour, where engagement with the subject matter could be done without giving rise to any implicit biases. Destiny provides himself as an example, explaining that he is very aware of the background as to why certain slurs are harmful, and therefore anyone with such knowledge would be able to engage in racial humour without being subconsciously influenced.
10:29 Pxie argues Destiny's position is more idealistic than pragmatic, and argues nobody is immune to these subconscious biases. Pxie argues the only way one would be able to determine if they were immune to these biases is if they were to take a series of scientifically valid subconscious testings. She posits even an individual who frequently takes part in pro-minority rallies has the propensity to fall victim to their subconscious bias.
12:09 Destiny argues a "harm" is committed when one loses access to certain forms of humour. Destiny defines "harm" as somebody losing access to a pleasurable thing.
13:17 Destiny posits a hypothetical to Pxie: Two individuals are identical in all measurable societal behaviors—how they treat minorities, how they vote, and how they interact with others—but differ internally. However, one person harbors implicit biases but is self-aware enough to check and manage them, while the other does not have these biases at all. Are these people significantly different? Pxie answers in the affirmative, arguing there is a difference.
13:57 Pxie argues that Destiny's hypothetical being dependent on the ability for an individual to "check" their subconscious biases makes his hypothetical unrealistic and impractical. Destiny counters that one could be able to address their subconscious biases through "checking" themselves, and explains the Cognitive Behavior Therapy model to Pxie:Thoughts can happen without our control, but we can choose how we respond to those facts.
15:05 Pxie argues that while Destiny may be able to check his subconscious bias when making such jokes, the individuals who hear the jokes may not be able to do so. Destiny disagrees, and argues that individuals(especially friends) can generally have a good understanding of what the thoughts are of the people around them. Destiny argues that if one can trust a doctor not to perform sexual acts on them when they're unconscious for surgery, one should be able to trust certain individuals in their friend group to not be racists.
17:19 While Pxie agrees with Destiny's general position, she argues that one would have to take a big gamble when telling edgy jokes pertaining to marginalized/oppressed groups. She further asserts that the small loss of humour one would feel by not telling these jokes is marginal compared to the reinforcement of these oppressive structures towards minorities.
18:16 Destiny responds, arguing that while he understands Pxie's perspective the biggest strength of his own perspective is that he is able to draw a line to determine "what is responsible"(i.e. private setting with individuals once can trust to not be racist).
18:42 Destiny argues that the logical conclusion to Pxie's perspective may do more harm than good. He explains that by her logic, even using a slur in "okay" contexts, the word's utterance would still contribute to the oppression of minorities. He argues by this logic, black people should never be allowed to say the n-word themselves, even in rap songs.
19:41 Pxie argues the "n-word" takes on a whole different meaning when a white person uses it versus when a black person uses it due to historical context. Destiny agrees, but argues if one cannot trust somebody to know if they're fostering racist attitudes as a result of using the word, how can the average white person understand a black person's usage of the word?
20:44 Pxie argues that "reclaiming the word" for black people is a form of counter-acting these oppressive systems. Destiny counters that black people using the n-word in raps and pop culture doesn't necessarily seem like an effective means of counteracting these oppressive systems compared to simply refraining from using the word. Destiny once again asserts that black people using the word would easily be misconstrued by white people.
23:48 Destiny reiterates the confusion that may arise by some people being allowed to use slurs while others cannot.
25:54 Destiny argues that usage of a slur can lead to dehumanizing thoughts.
28:14 Destiny points to an acceptable usage of a slur: Highlighting how stupid a person is for using it. Pxie asks if Destiny is making himself the punchline when using the n-word in private and asks Destiny to provide an example. Destiny provides an example of a South Park skit.
31:33 Destiny provides an example of a use of a joke containing a slur he would not be comfortable with.
33:34 Pxie argues one could make the jokes provided by Destiny without using the exact slur, and lose nothing of value. Destiny counters that such a mindset would lead to the removal of satire, given we could never trust anybody to not give into their subconscious biases. The two discuss examples for some time.
40:43 Destiny argues one could have a problematic engagement with some forms of media like It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, particularly the anti-vax episode.
45:46 Destiny provides the example of a joke Chris Rock could tell in private, but would not tell to the public. He argues Chris Rock telling that joke among friends would be less detrimental to society than if he were to tell it in public, as less people would be libel to construe the joke in a poor manner.
50:12 Destiny argues that private usage of racial humor among trusted individuals minimizes the potential for harm compared to public usage, which can lead to misinterpretation and unintended reinforcement of stereotypes.
1:00:07 Pxie and Destiny discuss examples of shows like The Boondocks, with Destiny arguing that satirical usage of slurs can often serve as a critique of societal issues. Destiny tempers this statement and admits that such language can still lead to misinterpretation by certain audiences.
1:10:12 Pxie claims to be aware of studies that show how slurs or stereotypes can influence implicit bias and public perception, even if the intent was not harmful.
1:15:07 Destiny expresses his interest in seeing studies as to how slurs could influence individuals racial views.
1:19:24 Destiny admits that while it's possible for individuals to interpret media the "wrong way", he is uncomfortable with removing all satire from society in this regard.
On October 29, 2019, Pxie and Destiny deliberated on the dichotomy between free will and determinism.[7] The majority of the conversation was conducted in an interview-like fashion by Pxie, and eventually progressed into a formal debate on the subject.
During the discussion, Destiny argued in favor of pre-determinism. While he acknowledged the probabilistic behavior of a particle's location in quantum mechanics as a potential gray area, he maintains that this uncertainty does not fully substantiate the existence of "true" randomness. He goes on to posit that the entire universe is predetermined, and that even in cases where true-randomness were discovered, the concept of free will would likely remain a fiction. Conversely, Pxie argued in favor of free-will, and pointed to the evolutionary development of consciousness as evidence. The two ultimately spend some time discussing the "illusion of free will"(with some illustrative assistance through microsoft paint), before Pxie expresses the need to think on the subject some more. Following this, the two depart from the call amicably.
Let's say that I have a ball that goes around, and it can pick up either red things or blue things. Let's say red things are better for it than blue things right? Let's say that this ball goes through the environment, picks up some red things, picks up some blue things, it's getting harmed by the blue things. Well maybe I say, okay well hold on, this is actually crucial that I endow this ball with the ability to choose between like red things or blue things. So I'm gonna give it the ability to choose between red or blue. I can set it forward on a path, and like that whole path could theoretically be predetermined even though it's been given that choice because now it'll just head towards the red things rather than the blue things.
1:18 Pxie offers to discus egoism, Destiny agrees. Pxie then asks Destiny if he believes "wanting things" is inherently selfish, and Destiny answers in the affirmative arguing "wanting something" for oneself is a fairly self-centered idea.
2:24 Pxie asks Destiny if wanting for food would be considered selfish, Destiny answers in the affirmative. Pxie decides that they should spend some time defining what the word "selfish" means.
3:46 Destiny defines egoism as "everyone doing something stemming from their own benefit" or "things stem from people's desires". Pxie describes her "beef" with egoism being that she can't fully grasp the concept that having a desire is inherently selfish.
4:56 Destiny explains that he is anti-realist with regards to morals. He continues, arguing that "what people want" can easily be determined by their circumstances/denvironment(aka people are a victim of their circumstances): "If you put people in predictable environments you can get predictable people"(e.g. putting a bunch of people in the ghetto will likely not yield a bunch of business people). Destiny compounds this to explain his deference towards egoism: People have a set of desires that they seek to fulfill, you can then analyze people's desires and why they desire them, from there one can provide better descriptive powers as to how people will act or change their behavior in the future.
5:52 Pxie asks Destiny if he would consider egoism to be a selfish ideology. Destiny answers yes, but explains he is answering without all the "morally loaded connotations" typically attached to the word "selfish". Destiny offers to change the word "selfish" to "self-driven", and Pxie accepts the replacement.
7:17 Destiny describes all of meta-ethics as "bullshit", and anyone's meta-ethics position is likely post-hoc rationalized. He goes on to describe his metaethics position as: "People have desires that they want to fulfill".
8:30 Pxie asks Destiny if he believes morality is derived from emotion, Destiny answers in the affirmative. Destiny provides an example: "When someone says killing is wrong [what they really mean is] I don't like killing".
9:33 Pxie explains her feeling that when most people refer to egoism, they speak on it from a mindset where they believe people are performing actions expecting some reward or a good feeling afterwards. Pxie provides the example of individuals with ADHD struggling to do tasks like homework and will prioritize things that give them less of a reward like video games. Destiny provides a steelman to individuals taking issue with Pxie's statement: mental illness would likely not factor into this conversation as these individuals would be outliers. He provides the example of someone with Parkinson's spilling coffee on their grandma not being a preference.
12:16 Pxie asks Destiny if he believes in pre-determinism. Destiny answers in the affirmative, and posits there likely are some exceptions on a quantum level.
13:10 Pxie asks Destiny why he believes "Quantum mechanics" isn't enough to tear apart pre-determinism. Destiny explains that there are many interpretations of Quantum mechanics that don't actually call for true randomness to exist(e.g. wave functions express probabilities of particles, and they appear random to us just because we lack the sufficient ability to measure their location). Destiny explains that while he doesn't have a sufficient level of expertise to fully realize this argument, he can understand that we speak in probabilities for this particular scenario as we don't know where the particle will truly lie in space.
15:42 Pxie asks Destiny if he believes determinism would be a "thing" if true randomness was discovered. Destiny answers that while determinism would cease to exist if true randomness were discovered, free will would likely never be a "thing". He explains that human beings would never have the ability to consciously collapse wave functions, or exert pressure over the existence of wave functions in our brains. Pxie replies that she needs to read more on the subject.
16:28 Destiny asks Pxie if she knows the difference between physicalism and materialism. Pxie responds in the affirmative, but notes it's been some time. Destiny explains that the only way Pxie would be able to do free will arguments, is by arguing for some time about a non-physical or immaterial entity. As arguing for free will from a materialistic point of view would require one to "break reality".
17:41 Destiny provides the example of rolling a rock down a hill, and being able to 100% measure where the rock will land every time. He compares this to the human experience.
18:29 Pxie states that from an evolutionary perspective everything humans possesses comes for a reason. Destiny informs Pxie she needs to be careful with her language, and draws from his experience debating race-realists. He explains that it would be better to state that evolution is descriptive rather than done with a specific intent. Destiny goes on to describe the possible reasons explaining why women developed breasts, or why humans have a "blind spot" in their eyes.
23:23 Pxie expresses her confusion with Destiny going from "some traits just happen to survive" to "there's no reason for anything". Destiny replies that he meant "things don't happen for a reason". Pxie apologizes again for being confused, and Destiny says she's fine.
23:46 Pxie contends that if nothing happens for a reason evolution wouldn't be a thing. Destiny identifies that Pxie's confusion lies in the word "reason". Destiny explains that when he says "nothing happens for a reason" he means things just exist, and that things happen, but there is no greater plan in place.
24:38 Pxie points out that white squirrels may have the ability to survive in the winter better compared to brown squirrels, and Destiny identifies this as a type of evolutionary "reason".
24:52 Pxie asks what the evolutionary reason to choose and have a conscious would be. Destiny explains that things can be predetermined and arise for a reason. Destiny identifies what Pxie is asking: "Why does something need a justification for something else if everything is predetermined". Destiny argues that these two things are not related to one another, and that one could have something that is predetermined and still have explanations for how things work.
25:37 Pxie once again points to consciousness as evidence for predetermination, and Destiny counters that individuals do not really make "choices". Pxie argues that we would never have developed a conscious to begin with if this was the case, as the reason it was developed was to give us the ability to choose. Destiny counters once again that all of our choices are theoretically pre-determined.
26:22 Destiny argues that if one has a ball that goes around and can either pick up red things or blue things. If the red things harm the ball, he explains he should give the ball tithe ability to choose between red things and blue things. Destiny argues that he could set a ball on a path, and that path would technically be predetermined as we know it would avoid all red things. Pxie is slightly confused by the example and Destiny clarifies for some time.
28:44 Destiny draws a picture to clarify his position.
30:21 Pxie draws a picture to clarify her position. Pxie asks how the path can be predetermined if the ball can take on multiple paths. Destiny explains that the scenario is predetermined as the ball is only choosing rainbow paths.
34:13 Pxie asks Destiny if he's an atheist. Destiny answers yes.
That's SUCH a cop-out... - Destiny debates on Bernie or Bust ft. Pxie, Joshua4Congress & more WIP
On April 20, 2020 Pxie hosted a political panel featuring Joshua4Congress, Destiny, ImReallyImportant, melanie and Johnnyscarlett.[8] Pxie primarily served as the moderator for the panel, and therefore had a limited say in the topics discussed. Despite sharing a left-leaning political affiliation, a noticeable rift was present amongst the panelists regarding the best methods of achieving left-wing policy(particularly with regards to the upcoming 2020 United States presidential election). ImReallyImportant, and Destiny advocated for pragmatic voting strategies, including supporting Democratic candidate Joe Biden as a means to counter Republican incumbent Donald Trump and secure incremental progress. Conversely, Joshua4Congress, melanie and Johnnyscarlett expressed difficulty distinguishing Biden from Trump, and were more closely aligned with the Bernie or Bust movement.
During the debate, Destiny took particular issue with Joshua4Congress claiming to have trouble discerning the intent of Biden's policies as a result of his Autism. Destiny argued that Joshua was using a "cop-out", and that his alleged disability does not excuse his inability to understand or articulate policy positions. Following the debate, Joshua claimed in his Discord server that he was very tired and hungry, which resulted in his suboptimal debate performance.[9]
"You're doing the Destiny thing..." - Post Bernie or Bust Discussion ft. Pxie
On April 20, 2020 Pxie, Destiny, Mindwaves, and Doug of CA discussed their frustrations with an earlier debate centered around the Bernie or Bust movement.[10] Near the end of the discussion, Pxie asked Destiny for any advice he had regarding hosting panels in the future. Destiny provided the following advice:
Avoid interjecting your own opinion
Pick people so the strength on both sides is equally represented
↑
PV Archive. (2024, February 11). Ohio Canvassing Newscast Couch Ft. @imreallyimportant & @DylanBurnsLIVE. Retrieved 2024, December 5, from https://youtu.be/5b_bpv7ZknU?t=927.
↑
Destiny. (2019, October 27). "I’ve never been more gaslit in my entire life...” - Destiny Debate ft. Hasanabi, TheSerfsTV, & More. Retrieved 2024, November 27, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hodq77NShaA.
↑
MindWavesTV. (2019, November 3). Big Brain Podcast Ep. 11 ft. Destiny, Hasan Piker, The Serfs, ActualJake, Cole James Cash & more. Retrieved 2024, November 27, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHkH9TthrmU.
↑Destiny. (2020, April 21). That's SUCH a cop-out... - Destiny debates on Bernie or Bust ft. Pxie, Joshua4Congress & more. Retrieved 2024, December 23, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0FnS1gFV4o.
↑
Destiny. (2020, April 22). "You're doing the Destiny thing..." - Post Bernie or Bust Discussion ft. Pxie. Retrieved 2024, December 23, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP584WiH2X0.
and Mark Zuckerberg's 