Lav: Difference between revisions
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On October 28, 2022 Melina, Destiny's wife, discussed her frustrations with watching Lav and several other orbiters interactions with Destiny on stream.<ref> Melina Vents about Lav Lune Drama and Parasocial Destiny Orbiters. (October 28, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 13, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWMgyXtSydo </ref> Melina actively expresses her frustration with ongoing drama involving Lav and draws parallels to manipulative behaviors she recognizes from her sister. She expresses discomfort with how some of Stephen's friends and acquaintances(i.e. Brittany), who lack a deep understanding of him, overly analyze and discuss his personal life and relationships, considering it inappropriate. She goes on to say that such behavior is "creepy" and quite "parasocial" when they attempt to analyze Destiny's behavior(i.e. saying "Oh Steven actually thinks this..."). Melina also shares concerns about the superficial nature of online interactions and friendships, especially those revolving around Stephen. She emphasizes the strong physical and emotional connection she shares with Stephen, contrasting this with the shallow and obsessive behavior she observes online. She contrasts the relationship between an individual who just communications with Destiny over text messages, and one of his ex-girlfriends. Throughout the video, Melina underscores her disdain for the manipulative and victim-playing tactics in online communities and her desire for more authentic and meaningful interactions. | On October 28, 2022 Melina, Destiny's wife, discussed her frustrations with watching Lav and several other orbiters interactions with Destiny on stream.<ref> Melina Vents about Lav Lune Drama and Parasocial Destiny Orbiters. (October 28, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 13, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWMgyXtSydo </ref> Melina actively expresses her frustration with ongoing drama involving Lav and draws parallels to manipulative behaviors she recognizes from her sister. She expresses discomfort with how some of Stephen's friends and acquaintances(i.e. Brittany), who lack a deep understanding of him, overly analyze and discuss his personal life and relationships, considering it inappropriate. She goes on to say that such behavior is "creepy" and quite "parasocial" when they attempt to analyze Destiny's behavior(i.e. saying "Oh Steven actually thinks this..."). Melina also shares concerns about the superficial nature of online interactions and friendships, especially those revolving around Stephen. She emphasizes the strong physical and emotional connection she shares with Stephen, contrasting this with the shallow and obsessive behavior she observes online. She contrasts the relationship between an individual who just communications with Destiny over text messages, and one of his ex-girlfriends. Throughout the video, Melina underscores her disdain for the manipulative and victim-playing tactics in online communities and her desire for more authentic and meaningful interactions. | ||
On November 6, 2022 Lav reacted to a video highlighting all of Melina's criticisms of her on stream. <ref>LavLune Fires Back at Destiny’s Wife Melina. (November 6, 2022). Www.youtube.com. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfP2u7qydBI </ref> On her stream, Lav actively challenges Melina's behavior, directly stating, "this is the opposite of maturity" and labeling Melina's actions as "very weird."In response to a perceived criticism of being babied her entire life for being pretty, Lav emphasizes her own hardships, including family neglect and substance addiction. She goes on to claim that Melina is unfairly making assumptions about her life, much like she accused Lav of doing with Destiny. Confused, Lav questions Melina's claims about Destiny treating her like a child, asserting that Destiny's charitable and nice behavior is misconstrued. In response to Melina's "psychoanalysis" accusations, Lav counters that Melina is psychoanalyzing her and points out that Destiny's highly public life, as he streams every day, makes such analysis not unwarranted. She further elaborates that both Brittany and she have personal relationships with Destiny, granting them the right to discuss him. She then accuses Melina of avoiding mentioning Destiny on her stream, claiming that Melina receives more donations when she refrains from doing so. Lav concedes that she does not know Destiny as well as an ex-girlfriend would(as Melina claimed), but caveats that they know him enough through their interactions on stream to warrant discussion on his behavior. Concluding her response, | On November 6, 2022 Lav reacted to a video highlighting all of Melina's criticisms of her on stream. <ref>LavLune Fires Back at Destiny’s Wife Melina. (November 6, 2022). Www.youtube.com. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfP2u7qydBI </ref> On her stream, Lav actively challenges Melina's behavior, directly stating, "this is the opposite of maturity" and labeling Melina's actions as "very weird."In response to a perceived criticism of being babied her entire life for being pretty, Lav emphasizes her own hardships, including family neglect and substance addiction. She goes on to claim that Melina is unfairly making assumptions about her life, much like she accused Lav of doing with Destiny. Confused, Lav questions Melina's claims about Destiny treating her like a child, asserting that Destiny's charitable and nice behavior is misconstrued. In response to Melina's "psychoanalysis" accusations, Lav counters that Melina is psychoanalyzing her and points out that Destiny's highly public life, as he streams every day, makes such analysis not unwarranted. She further elaborates that both Brittany and she have personal relationships with Destiny, granting them the right to discuss him. She then accuses Melina of avoiding mentioning Destiny on her stream, claiming that Melina receives more donations when she refrains from doing so. Lav concedes that she does not know Destiny as well as an ex-girlfriend would(as Melina claimed), but caveats that they know him enough through their interactions on stream to warrant discussion on his behavior. Concluding her response, Lav highlights her openness to criticism and feedback, asserting she handles it better than most streamers, while also sharing her personal views on open relationships and her interactions with Steven. | ||
=== Lav joins a debate panel featuring Low Tier God and JiDion WIP === | === Lav joins a debate panel featuring Low Tier God and JiDion WIP === |
Revision as of 14:38, 13 November 2023
Lea AKA LavLune is a singer, TikTok content creator, feminist and former OnlyFans content creator. She gained notoriety as one of the most contentious orbiters to appear on Destiny's stream. Her initial on-stream discussions focused primarily on her unique perspective on sex work debates as a former OnlyFans model. However, her aggressive debate tactics, such as yelling, name-calling, and asserting unearned authority on certain issues, coupled with a tendency to quickly reverse her positions and apologize post-debate, plunged these discussions into controversy. This behavior attracted severe criticism from much of Destiny's community, especially the subreddit members, which resulted in many "meta" discussions on how Destiny moderated his community. These conversations routinely involved Lav accusing Destiny of fostering an environment that turned his community against her. She asserted this was due in part to a lack of moderation of his community with regards to criticism of orbiters, as well as Destiny’s on-stream criticisms of her(these discussions were also poorly received by the subreddit). She was eventually found assisting former orbiter MrGirl in developing a massive manifesto, and was excised from the community.
On stream appearances with Destiny and dramas WIP
Destiny Moderates a debate between MrGirl and Lav
On June 12, 2022, Destiny reacted to a vod of Lav appearing on a call-in show hosted by MrGirl. During her call-in Lav debated topics involving gaslighting, boundaries, and abuse. The initial debate primarily centered around discussing what an individual should do if they heard their partner crying in another room. Lav was of the belief that when an individual feels themselves becoming emotionally dysregulated by an action their partner has done, and thinks they may lash out on their partner as a result of said action, the individual should self-regulate by taking a walk or creating some emotional/physical distance. MrGirl felt that such actions by an individual would make their partner feel abandoned, and that one should learn to emotionally regulate without withdrawing. Lav came away from the conversation feeling emotionality/physically frustrated, and even questioned if she was abusing her husband after hearing MrGirl's position.
While watching the debate, Destiny had trouble discerning what the two were actually debating about. He also noted that MrGirl never asked Lav any clarifying questions about her position, and was fairly aggressive throughout the conversation.
Debate Highlights(Destiny reacting to a vod of MrGirl and Lav) | |
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After watching the vod, Destiny decided to invite Lav onto his stream to offer her some debate advice. Soon after, MrGirl joined the call, and Destiny moderated a debate between the two.[1] With Destiny's assistance, the two were able to clearly lay out their positions. Despite this, the debate still became quite heated, and both debaters maintained the same positions they entered the call with.
Debate Highlights(Destiny moderating a debate between MrGirl and Lav) | |
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Destiny reacts to a panel featuring Lav
On August 6, 2022, Chudlogic hosted a panel to discuss sex work and OnlyFans.[2] Among the guests on this panel included Merrick Deville, Wickedsupreme, and Lav. Destiny had chosen to watch this panel because he was interested in Lav's perspective as an individual who quit creating OnlyFans content as a result of her interactions with MrGirl.[3]
Lav confronts Destiny in a Pre-Panel debate
On August 7, 2022, Lav confronted Destiny in a Pre-Panel debate, suggesting he misunderstood the financial struggles of sex workers when comparing them to other professions like doctors.[4] The discussion explored the societal implications of sex work, particularly in platforms like OnlyFans, touching on subjects such as the dehumanization of women, unrealistic beauty standards, and societal consumption of explicit content. They debated the role of personal responsibility, with Lav emphasizing the potential negative impacts of sex work on society, while Destiny argued that the issue lies more with societal engagement and overindulgence in technology than with sex work itself.
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Highlights from the panel include:
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Lav debates sex work and ethics on a ChudLogic panel
On August 7, 2022 Lav joined Destiny, REDACTED, Sneako, and MrGirl, to discuss several topics including OnlyFans, sex work, AI porn, and Dogwarts.[5] Much like her prior appearances, Lav takes the position that sex work is a net-negative to society and should be heavily regulated. As there are multiple sex-workers(TafTaj and Jenavive) on the call, much contention arises. This conversation quickly becomes heated as multiple "shit-stirrers" are present in the call.
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Highlights from this panel include:
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Lav hashes out her personal grievances with several orbiters on Destiny's stream
On August 11, 2022, Lav confronted several orbiters on Destiny's stream for several hours to hash out some perceived personal grievances the individuals had with one another(primarily between Brittany and Lav).[6] The "panel" initially started as a one on one discussion between Destiny and Lav, wherein she had many negative things to say about Brittany Simon. The conversation quickly devolved into a shouting match as more orbiters elected to join the discord call, and known shit-stirrer REDACTED contributed to the chaos. During the conversation, Lav and MrGirl try to convince a very high Brittany that her method of operating her Patreon and the “levels" system she utilizes are harmful. However, the disparate ways in which MrGirl and Lav present their messages leads to conflict between the two. By the end of the conversation Lav agrees with Brittany that she is smart enough to know what she's doing, and is truthfully engaging in harm reduction(she likely states this to spite MrGirl).
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Highlights from the panel include:
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REDACTED discusses a leaked recording of Lav trash talking Destiny
On August 12, 2022, REDACTED shed some light on a leaked recording involving Lav.[7] [8] This conversation occurred on ChudLogic's channel, and lasted around sixteen minutes. The conversation begins with a content creator in Chud's community, Kuihman, alleging that Lav lied about an individual stalking, calling the FBI on her, and posting a photo of her house on a private server. This all occurred after Lav lead a harassment campaign against the individual's friends.
REDACTED, Chud, and Kuihman go on to listen to a leaked call wherein Lav stated that Destiny wanted to suck her husband's cock, and that she would never sleep with him. In the call, Lav calls Destiny a "cheese-boy", elf, and troll-man. REDACTED says there are two possibilities, either Destiny is joking or a coomer.
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Lav discusses allegations made against her in a ChudLogic panel
On August 14, 2022, Lav joined a ChudLogic panel to discuss allegations made against her, Destiny listened to the covnersation for half an hour before he got bored.[9][10] During the call Lav confronts Kuihman over some alleged discord harassment campaigns he and his friends had organized against her.
Lav dispels the rumors about Destiny asking to suck her husband's cock. She reasons that she was just bantering and says many absurd things in discord calls, like wanting to fuck dogs(her preference is a Doberman). Lav goes on to say she'd be open to having sex with Destiny despite her bantering in the leaked call. She also states that her and Destiny were friends several months before she started to stream, implying any claims of her "clout-sharking" to be absurd.
Lav discusses sex work and feminism with Destiny, debates pornography with Kai Clips
On September 12, 2022, Lav had a discussion with Destiny regarding Feminism, Sex work, and her discord ban from MrGirl's server. [11]
In the discussion, Lav expresses her mixed feelings towards radical-feminism, asserting her disagreement with many of its tenets but agreeing with some. She emphasizes her lack of concern for transwomen's feelings, specifically mentioning she doesn't care if they don't want to be referred to as male. She also criticizes transwomen for discussing feminist issues related to female socialization. Destiny challenges Lav's rhetoric, warning against taking more "provocative" positions that may lead to social media backlash and a toxic community.
Discussing feminism, Lav identifies her main issue with radical-feminism as its perceived masculinization of women. She labels herself a cultural feminist, aiming for a society that emphasizes women's inherent qualities. Destiny argues that Lav's views might stem from a previously unexamined life, making her vulnerable to new abstract concepts. He uses her relationship with her appearance and her previous OnlyFans involvement to illustrate his point.
On the topic of sex-work's morality, Destiny probes Lav about power imbalances in male-female sexual relations. Lav suggests casual sex should be restricted to friends. Regarding sex-work, she criticizes the harmful content in porn and its accessibility to children. Lav believes women can't give informed consent in the current scope of sex work, but she'd accept it in a perfectly equal society.
Near the end of their debate, Destiny points out that Lav tends to take very strong positions on topics, scream at people, act smug about it, and then will later say she never felt very strong about the topic to begin with. Lav responds that she has difficulty managing the line between being entertaining and nuanced, and says she will attempt to rectify this issue.
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During the same stream, Kai Clips joins the call to debate pornography with Lav. While both oppose pornographic content, Kai feels Lav doesn't articulate her stance well. The primary distinction is that Lav thinks pornographic content could exist in a scenario where parties give perfect consent, but Kai believes it shouldn't exist at all.
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Lav debates Trans issues with Destiny
On October 3, 2022, Lav debated Destiny on whether or not nonbinary trans people exist.[12] Destiny, through a good faith interpretation of Lav's position and some meaningful dialogue was able to move Lav towards a less extreme position.
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Destiny debates Lav and Zherka, featuring Chaeiry
On October 15, 2022 Destiny debated Lav and Zherka. Chaeiry eventually joined the call to discuss her annoyance with Lav.[13] The video starts with Lav talking about her new Patreon and her fallout with Chaeiry. Lav claims that Chaeiry "farmed" people against her, labeled her as racist, and obsessively responded to her content. Because Chaeiry was reviewing them, Lav made her vods private. Later, she shares that her experience in MrGirl's community made her strongly against sex work, and she expresses concern about the backlash from changing her stance. Destiny tells her that it's okay for her to change her views occasionally but advises her to avoid making strong statements throughout the process. Lav takes issue with this accusation, and the two debate for some time. Zherka eventually joins the conversation, sparking a debate about the femininity of men and what women genuinely seek in men.
Some time after Lav disconnects, Chaeiry joins the call to discuss the things Lav had said. She shows Destiny a clip of Lav on a political panel, wherein Lav calls herself "black and slow"(she plays this off as a Jesse Lee Peterson quote). Chaeiry's primary issue is Lav making racial jokes in the presence of several racist individuals.
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Destiny shouts at Lav in a panel addressing MrGirl allegations by Chaeiry
On October 16, 2022, Destiny and a panel of orbiters have a discussion on some drama involving Chaeiry and Mrgirl, as well as a "nuke" Lav wanted to drop on Hasan.[14] Chaeiry had thought MrGirl had intentionally lifted his shirt to flash his stomach/lower body, and tweeted out a #metoo style tweet alongside Stardust with regards to it. Chaeiry seeing the backlash towards her accusations, decided to speak with Destiny to get some clarification as to where she messed up. The two talks for a few minutes, and after some further discussion(and some rather aggressive questioning by Chaeiry), Destiny concludes that to assume any maliciousness form MrGirl in this instance would be unreasonable.
Later on in the day, Dan joins the call followed by Lav, Aba, and Zherka. Lav brags about "being right" about Chaeiry's character, mentioning her toxicity and alleged mental illness, and defends MrGirl quite vehemently. Destiny takes issue with the harshness of Lav's criticisms, and the two discuss for some time. Throughout the conversation Lav derides Chaiery's character,insults her, and accuses her of betraying MrGirl's friendship and trust. The conversation goes on for about twenty minutes before the panel discusses sex work. Noticing a lull in the topics, Ahrelevant joins the call to debate with Lav about the ethicacy of online pornograophy, and her heavy-handedness during debates. This conversation quickly gets derailed as Darius enters the call to shout at Lav.
The conversation becomes even more personal when Aba expresses his disdaine for Lav, calling her a version of Sneako with less charisma. He goes on to point to Lav's ability to take strong moral stances on topics she has no prior knowledge on, Lav takes issue with this and the two(along with Ahrel) discuss for some time. Shortly after this conversation, Lav alludes to a "nuke" on Hasan. Destiny stops her from dropping the nuke, stating she will end her whole career over this and that the allegations are not strong enough. Eventually Chaeiry joins the call to confront Lav, and the two argue for some time. MrGirl enters the call shortly after Chaeiry, and recreates the pose that was clipped. The setup he recreates the pose in has much better lighting, and shows that only his abdomen and love handles are visible(no pubes to be seen).
Chaeiry and MrGirl debate for some time. Eventually Chaeiry agrees that MrGirl's lower back, and not his butt was shown. MrGirl, citing himself as being in survival mode, qualifies his defense by stating one should "believe all women" in these cases and acknowledges that Chaeiry may have felt uncomfortable. Naturally, the conversation shifts focus back to Lav(after she accuses Chaiery of lying) and Destiny is forced to explain to her what a lie is. While in the middle of defining what a lie is, Lav interrupts Destiny, he responds by calling her a "dumb bitch". Several more people interrupt Destiny, and he threatens to ban the entire panel. Destiny snaps once more, saying this whole situation is a nothing burger that nobody will remember, and that MrGirl should probably be going much harder on Chaeiry as a result of her actions. MrGirl eventually leaves, and the panel members then turn their attention to Lav and criticize her for treating Chaiery poorly during the discussion. Lav and Chaiery continue to argue about whether Chaiery lied, and in the end, Lav angrily exits the call.
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Destiny confronts Lav after reacting to her talking about him on other streams AKA Destiny takes off the "kids gloves" and yells at Lav
On October 23, 2022, Destiny watches several clip of Lav speaking about him on other streams. [15]. During the clips, Lav makes the following statements that Destiny takes issue with:
- She states she is less interested in teaching Destiny how to treat her, and more interested in having relationships with people who already already know how to respect her. Destiny responds that Lav is cringe, young, and naive. Especially when it comes to establishing boundaries with other people.
- She agrees with MrGirl's claim that nobody who has ever loved Destiny has ever pushed back against him. Destiny again, expresses his frustration with watching a 24 year old, whose opinions he has observed change frequently, trying to psychoanalyze his relationship.
- She maintains that Chaeiry and Stardust were purposely malicious in their attempted cancellation of MrGirl, and accuses Destiny of not coming to MrGirl's aid. Destiny responds that the overwhelming majority of online spaces were coming out against Chaiery and Stardust, and found it unnecessary to add on to the criticism they were receiving as a result of the accusation.
Eventually, Lav joins the stream to confront Destiny. Lav claims she never "talked shit" about Destiny on other streams, and accuses Destiny of "emboldening" his community against her and breeding misogyny. She also maintains that Destiny's audience has many groypers in it harassing her. Destiny responds that he polices against misogyny heavily in his community, and points out that Lav has spent much time on Groyper platforms. He clarifies that this is is likely where the harassment she receives is coming from. The two debate for some time, regarding the perceived Misogyny in Destiny's community(primarily the subreddit), Lav's characterization of Destiny on other streams, and Lav's behavior in debates.
Throughout their conversation, Destiny attempts to make clear to Lav that her on-stream issues do not stem from her unfamiliarity with debate spheres. Instead they stem from her habit of belittling other people who hold differing views from her, and then changing her mind on these views the next day. Destiny points out that Lav perfectly situates herself in most conversations to sit on either side of the fence on a given topic. And when she confronts an individual on that topic, she flips to the "good side" of that fence. The conversation gets quite emotional with Lav even sobbing through her arguments at one point. Lav eventually apologizes and says she was wrong, and that she does not truly think Destiny's audience is filled with groypers or misogynists.
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Orbiter Civil War AKA Lav and 12 other orbiters yell at each other for several hours
On October 24, 2022, Lav and several other orbiters held a discussion for several hours on Destiny's stream.[16][17] The "prelude" to the civil war, involved Brittany and Destiny discussing the "real-world" impact of streamers, and the potentiality for certain orbiters(i.e MrGirl and Lav) to betray Destiny.
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Aba eventually joins the call, and the Orbiter Civil War officially kicks off. The primary contention starts between Aba and Lav. Aba claimed most discussions with Lav are pointless, as she will always fall back on being "young and naive" whenever she's proven wrong in a discussion. Destiny tries to moderate the discussion between the two, as he sees no issue in Lav's ignorance as long as she eventually admits fault. Each orbiter(outside of Brittany), seemingly had a "problem":
- Brittany has no problems, she's just an observer.
- Chaiery has a problem regarding the fallout of her failed cancellation of MrGirl and animosity towards Lav.
- Dan wants to stir up drama.
- Lav has a problem with Destiny's community attitude towards her, nobody taking her seriously, and a general animosity toward Chaiery.
- MrGirl is mad about Destiny's community(primarily the subreddit and it's moderation). He feels the subreddit is part of a system of discrediting other orbiters, and making them look bad.
- Stardust has issues with her and MrGirl's friendship deteriorating as a result of MrGirl's attempted cancellation.
Destiny first addresses the issues with Lav. Lav accuses Destiny of tarnishing her reputation by labeling her as being young and naive, which leads the subreddit to echo this sentiment. Destiny responds, asserting that his intention is not to discredit her but to provide an explanation for the seemingly contradictory and highly irrational nature of some of her statements. He clarifies his stance on Lav’s behavior, describing it as manipulative, and he details his reasons for perceiving some of her actions as gaslighting.
Destiny's contentions with MrGirl arise in the form of a debate on community responsibility. MrGirl and Lav argue that Destiny shouldn't call out the mistakes of smaller content creators on his stream because it might turn his audience against them. For instance, MrGirl thinks Lav should have the freedom to call anyone a "dumb bitch" on stream, but believes Destiny shouldn't, because his audience would deride the "dumb bitch" in question. Destiny counters that he would never allow anyone to get away with poor behavior on his stream, regardless of their size. Chaiery, Pxie, and Brittany take Destiny's side, and argue that MrGirl and Lav are attempting to absolve themselves from all responsibility for their actions by blaming Destiny for the community's behavior towards them. Throughout this discussion, Lav does not speak much and only chimes in to echo whatever sentiment MrGirl conveys.
A discussion emerges over the relative meanness of Destiny and MrGirl. Destiny confesses that his own words are often "meaner," but he also highlights the significant impact of MrGirl's way of framing certain issues. He compares his own insult towards Lav, calling her a dumb bitch, to MrGirl’s statement that Chaiery is "incapable of having a conversation." Feeling attacked in this conversation, MrGirl labels the other orbiters in the call "white blood cells" because they rally to counteract his points against Destiny. THroughout this portion of the conversation, several of the other orbiters in the call point out that MrGirl arguments make it seem like he wishes to avoid all "responsibility" for his actions on stream, by wishing to never be called out on any poor behavior. Near the end of this conversation, Lav decides to bring up REDACTED as an example of abused orbiters. Lav claims that REDACTED was a normal women that was tormented and demonized by Destiny's community. Destiny takes issue with this and the two discuss for some time to.
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Destiny reacts to an emotional Lav stream
On October 29, 2022, Destiny reacted to an emotional stream featuring Lav.[18]. Throughout the video, Lav maintains a somber demeanor and tone while clutching her knees to her chest in the fetal position. She addresses her problems with Destiny criticizing her on-stream behavior, and openly shares her distress about Destiny labeling her as an abuser in front of "several thousand people". As the video plays, Destiny tackles any dubious arguments presented in the VOD and responds to questions from the chat about Lav's behavior, such as her mental block concerning how others perceive her. Destiny's major criticism of Lav is that she tends to make her "feelings" into statements of fact, and tends to leverage her emotional state to win arguments(hence the abuse accusations towards Lav).
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Lav discusses misogyny and community moderation on a panel featuring Aba and Sneako
On October 28, 2022, Lav discussed Misogyny and community moderation on a panel featuring many orbiters including Aba, Sneako, Counterpoints, and Rem.[19] The video begins with Lav apologizing for bringing up REDACTED in a previous conversation, and Destiny responding that he doesn't give a fuck. Soon after, Aba takes the chance to confront Lav about her habit of speaking impulsively. In return, Lav accuses Aba of being a misogynist, leading to a prolonged debate between members of the panel over Lav's behavior and her tendency to speak without thinking. Throughout the conversation, Sneako routinely asks Lav what she's wearing and requests she turn her camera on. Meanwhile, Rem shit stirs with Dan's assistance, Erudite earnestly tries to guide Lav to a more reasonable stance, and Destiny struggles, albeit unsuccessfully, to moderate the panel's aggression and overt misogyny. Counterpoints works to uncover the valid points in Lav's "bullshit," even preparing a document to support his case, while Aba consistently criticizes Lav, likening her to a youthful, naive, and irritating version of Sneako in a wig, and labels her a detrimental figure for women in the midst of the anti-misogyny discourse.
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Destiny and Dan recap MrGirl Bridge Burning and Lav's Future
On November 1, 2022 Dan and Destiny had a conversation recapping MrGirl's bridge burning and Lav's future as an orbiter.[20] The two anticipate MrGirl to make a comeback after his pattern of temporary internet departures, similar to a tactic which Dan dubs as the "REM maneuver." Despite the complications with MrGirl, Lav consistently returns from breaks with more strength, although her departures are brief and somewhat performative. There is a debate over whether Max will abandon his principles for the practical benefits of returning online, challenging his established persona of authenticity through resistance to change. Max's inflexible methodology and extreme bridge-burning are highlighted as potentially problematic, with a rigid self-perception that rejects adaptation. Destiny suggests that Max will likely create a rationale to justify his return to the internet, potentially with some changes to his approach, unlike Lav, who has more leeway to evolve due to her less absolute commitments.
Aba Gets Called Out And Dragged Into an Impromptu Debate featuring Lav
On November 4, 2022 Aba, Brittany Simon, Dan, Politically Provoked's Brittany, Lav, and several other orbiters engaged in an impromptu debate on sex work, OnlyFans, and Relationships.[21] The video begins with a debate between Politically Provoked Brittany and several other orbiter(including Lav) debating the feasibility of OnlyFans workers like Lav taking public stances against misogyny. The conversation then shifts to an argument over whether or not an individual can ever have "healthy" conversations with an OnlyFans content creator. Destiny maintains it's possible for a healthy discussion to be had, but it's impossible to know from an outside perspective. Chaiery, Brittany Simon and other orbiters take issue with Destiny's perspective and the panel discusses for some time. This conversation eventually evolves into a discussion of individuals becoming lonelier in society, and having fewer friends, Destiny and Aba agree this is likely a result of the internet/technology while Brittany disagrees this is the primary cause. At some point during this conversation, Lav states that Destiny convinced her to close her relationship, as a result of viewing how he engages in open relationships. This results in a personal debate between Lav and Destiny over whose life is more "niche" or unmaintable for the average person. Lav argues that the way Destiny manages her open relationship is a "niche", while Destiny counters that a partner being okay with someone who posts nudes on OnlyFans and Twitter is also an oddity.
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Destiny discusses Lex Fridman and Lav
On November 5, 2022 Destiny discussed Lex Fridman and Lav during viewer call-ins. Destiny brings up at around twenty-two minutes into the call-ins that Lex thinks Lav has a "really beautiful mind", and is fascinated by her.[22] Destiny found this very amusing as Lex even shared this sentiment with Melina(who was not very fond of Lav at the time).
Lav and Sneako go on a "date"
On November 6, 2022 Lav and Sneako went on an "E-date" over discord.[23] During their date, the two actively engage in a multi-faceted discussion, starting off jovially before delving into more serious topics. Initially, they clear up a misunderstanding about a YouTube clip before Sneako teases Lav about not lighting candles, which sparks a lighthearted exchange on effort in dating. As the conversation deepens, Lav defines her position as a modern feminist, differentiating herself from third-wave feminist ideals, and shares her experiences as an entertainer and former signed artist. Sneako contributes his perspective, challenging Lav on the implications of sex work and questioning the consistency of feminist principles with some of Lav's personal choices. Sneako also brings up the idea that modern feminism sometimes equates to adopting traits traditionally associated with men, reflecting on the broader societal shifts and the repercussions of such changes on gender roles and expectations. They delve into the intricacies of sex work, with Lav recounting her personal history and the resulting feelings of dehumanization from her time in the industry. Their dialogue broadens to cover a range of topics including personal values, experiences with sex and relationships, and societal views on these matters, reflecting a nuanced exploration of contemporary cultural debates.
Lav and Melina fire shots at one another on their streams
On October 28, 2022 Melina, Destiny's wife, discussed her frustrations with watching Lav and several other orbiters interactions with Destiny on stream.[24] Melina actively expresses her frustration with ongoing drama involving Lav and draws parallels to manipulative behaviors she recognizes from her sister. She expresses discomfort with how some of Stephen's friends and acquaintances(i.e. Brittany), who lack a deep understanding of him, overly analyze and discuss his personal life and relationships, considering it inappropriate. She goes on to say that such behavior is "creepy" and quite "parasocial" when they attempt to analyze Destiny's behavior(i.e. saying "Oh Steven actually thinks this..."). Melina also shares concerns about the superficial nature of online interactions and friendships, especially those revolving around Stephen. She emphasizes the strong physical and emotional connection she shares with Stephen, contrasting this with the shallow and obsessive behavior she observes online. She contrasts the relationship between an individual who just communications with Destiny over text messages, and one of his ex-girlfriends. Throughout the video, Melina underscores her disdain for the manipulative and victim-playing tactics in online communities and her desire for more authentic and meaningful interactions.
On November 6, 2022 Lav reacted to a video highlighting all of Melina's criticisms of her on stream. [25] On her stream, Lav actively challenges Melina's behavior, directly stating, "this is the opposite of maturity" and labeling Melina's actions as "very weird."In response to a perceived criticism of being babied her entire life for being pretty, Lav emphasizes her own hardships, including family neglect and substance addiction. She goes on to claim that Melina is unfairly making assumptions about her life, much like she accused Lav of doing with Destiny. Confused, Lav questions Melina's claims about Destiny treating her like a child, asserting that Destiny's charitable and nice behavior is misconstrued. In response to Melina's "psychoanalysis" accusations, Lav counters that Melina is psychoanalyzing her and points out that Destiny's highly public life, as he streams every day, makes such analysis not unwarranted. She further elaborates that both Brittany and she have personal relationships with Destiny, granting them the right to discuss him. She then accuses Melina of avoiding mentioning Destiny on her stream, claiming that Melina receives more donations when she refrains from doing so. Lav concedes that she does not know Destiny as well as an ex-girlfriend would(as Melina claimed), but caveats that they know him enough through their interactions on stream to warrant discussion on his behavior. Concluding her response, Lav highlights her openness to criticism and feedback, asserting she handles it better than most streamers, while also sharing her personal views on open relationships and her interactions with Steven.
Lav joins a debate panel featuring Low Tier God and JiDion WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slcuGeh99W4
A debate panel featuring Lav and Aba gets derailed WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHY0V2QQeKY
Lav gets confronted on ChudLogic's stream WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M46CiExHMaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF3Ln1qasFc
Lav debates on the Playing With Fire channel WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSw_1n-FMyQ
Destiny considers banning all mention of Lav and Mrgirl in his community WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vRyIO_OvawQ
Lav debates 100 DGGers on Discord about REDACTED and Destiny WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aouS-r9WcMM
Destiny addresses Lav's Allegations and Exposes MrGirl WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNLNmDQOdYE
Lav Cries on ChudLogic's stream WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8HgUa6W-bA
Notable Clips, videos, logs, and tweets WIP
External Links
References
- ↑ Destiny Moderates MrGirl vs Lav Debate (Gaslighting, Boundaries, Abuse). (August 9, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 6, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcARJDJ4y6k
- ↑ OnlyFans Stars CLASH, Panel GANGS UP on Ex-Model! (August 11, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 4, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soU9GwCv5Cc
- ↑ 2022-08-06|P1 Reacting to ChudLogic panel about sex work and OnlyFans; viewer call-ins. (September 4, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 4, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_l0fADhOZ0&t=2541s
- ↑ “Destiny Has A Big Problem With Me” Ex-Sex Worker CONFRONTS Destiny In Pre-Panel Debate. (August 7, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 4, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqSHS5ncGsQ
- ↑ Destiny, REDACTED & MrGirl Bully S*x Workers for 4 Hours. (August 9, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 5, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhljHCOOC08
- ↑ PURE CHAOS | Destiny, Lav, Brittany, MrGirl & Redacted | Drama Panel. (August 11, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 5, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zH6yO_16lM
- ↑ REDACTED Sheds Light on LEAKED RECORDING of Lavlune TRASHING Destiny! (Private S*X Info Leaked?). (August 13, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 6, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLK6Z4iRqL4
- ↑ THE E-GIRL EXORCISM - SHOCKING LAVLUNE REVELATIONS. (August 11, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 10, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egyuwjqEXNw
- ↑ Lavlune BACKSTABS Destiny, LIES About STALKER & Gets ATTACKED By Obsessed 4Channer. (August 15, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 6, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4bsurH_FC4
- ↑ 2022-08-14|P1 Destiny was rude to F&F producer; talk w/ Aba about Fresh & Fit, Sneako. (August 19, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 11, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWCDIoM-Ppc
- ↑ 2022-09-11|P2 Talk w/ Lav about sex work, Lav’s beliefs; KaiClips and Lav debate pornography. (September 12, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 11, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3iIvcBoZ3g
- ↑ Destiny Actually Convinces Her To Concede A Trans Debate. (October 5, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 11, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH8iFzeEMa8
- ↑ Destiny Gets Triggered Into A Debate w/ Lav And Zherka ft. Chaeiry. (October 15, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 16, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myPGy1WNvx8
- ↑ Destiny Finally SNAPS, Almost Bans Entire Panel Addressing MrGirl False Allegations. (October 18, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 16, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-irtug0-WYE
- ↑ Destiny Finally Takes Gloves Off, Debate Ends In TEARS. (October 25, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 17, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y6DDtjM3cY
- ↑ Destiny Orbiter Civil War | PRELUDE. (October 26, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 17, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLn43h5JzNA
- ↑ Destiny. (2022). Aba CONFRONTS Destiny, Triggers MELTDOWN 13 Person Debate | CIVIL WAR. In YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX7Y8O4FbzI
- ↑ I Asked My Therapist About Destiny. (October 29, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 17, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qqxb_v1GE
- ↑ Sneako And Aba CLASH On Debate Panel Over DJ Akademiks Fresh N Fit Drama. (October 30, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 1, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB2fkZMTvxE
- ↑ Destiny and Dan RECAP MrGirl Bridge Burning and Lav’s Future. (November 1, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 3, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9rkDh3_N3E
- ↑ “DO NOT Make It Personal” - Aba Gets Called Out And Dragged Into Impromptu Debate. (November 6, 2023). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 6, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rAynLV9qKI
- ↑ Destiny SchizVember Call-ins (R*pe Review, Cheating, Lex Fridman and Lav). (November 5, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 8, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzgF4hWILRs
- ↑ Lav And Sneako Go on a date. (November 6, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 9, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwNU0NTczVQ
- ↑ Melina Vents about Lav Lune Drama and Parasocial Destiny Orbiters. (October 28, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 13, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWMgyXtSydo
- ↑ LavLune Fires Back at Destiny’s Wife Melina. (November 6, 2022). Www.youtube.com. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfP2u7qydBI