- 1:17 Anna joins the stream to debate Straighterade. She describes her desire to remain ambiguous with regards to her marital status.
- 2:54 Destiny laughs when Anna brings up black mean, and Lav attempts to describe how patronizing that is before she is promptly kicked from the call by Destiny.
- 3:54 Annalicia states black men are professionals at weaponizing their feelings. Destiny points out that other races do this as well.
- 6:59 Straighterade states she does not appreciate Annalicia's spreading of the "absent black father myth". Lav and Annalicia scoff at this, and debates the issue. Annalicia attempts to have a good faith debate, however Lav is quick to call Straighterade a contrarian, and laugh at some of her claims.
- 13:27 Annalicia claims she is talking to a white women, and Straighterade takes issue and states she is hispanic. Anna responds that hispanic is not a race.
- 15:05 Annalicia claims that the studies Straighterade cites cannot truly quantify the engagement black fathers have with their children. Straightered counters that they in fact can. Lav cites a random fact. Destiny, seeing Annalicia and Straighterade are speaking past each other, chimes in and clarifies their positions. He clarifies that there is a deficit of black fathers that are involved, and this is the key issue(not necessarily that black fathers that are involved are poorly doing so).
- 18:46 While Straighterade and Annalicia are attempting to hash out their disagreement regarding the statistics of black fathers, Lav decides to chime in and ask provide a few statistics regarding black children(to Destiny's chagrin as Straighterade has already addressed the data point she's citing).
- 19:29 Lav goes into detail regarding black men incarceration rates, have super high crime rates, and questions what they are doing all day. She goes on to state that they are likely not taking their children to school every day.Straighterade points out the difference between "being unmarried" and "being absent" and how this invalidates Lav's position. Lav then recommends that Straighterade shutup and listen to Annalicia.
- 21:10 A black female therapist, Alice Jay joins the call and pushes back against Lav's position. She points out that black men(who are not absent) are involved with their children. Lav handwaves this as Alice seeing privileged clients. Alice cuts Lav off and informs her that she actually works in an underserved area. She goes on to describe how many of her patients are on Medicaid(government provided healthcare for low-income individuals). Lav maintains that these people are still privileged.
- 22:34 Lav describes how she grew up in Englewood around only black people, and provided the anecdote that none of the black individuals she met were able to recognize that their children had any form of mental illness(she described this as a staple of the black community). Straighterade then points out the irony in Lav talking down to a black women, minutes after saying black women have authority on this particular subject.
- 23:08 Lav attempts to backtrack and claims she was not speaking on the black experience. Other members on the panel call her out for this and point out that she in fact was.
- 25:00 Alice and Annalicia debate for some time.
- 27:38 Destiny clears the air, and points out that Ana's argument is the types of families that would even think to take their children to these counselors, is probably going to select for the best of black families. Alice then counters that these families are at the "end of their rope" and because there is a behavioral problem with the child(either she helps them or they end up in a foster home).
- 30:33 Pxie steps in to debat Annalicia. She asks Annalicia what her "end goal" or solution is. Destiny steps in once again to steelman Annalicia's argument.
- 32:31 Lav accuses Straighterade of calling Annalicia a racist. Straighterade denies this, but Alice accepts that, and elaborates why she thinks so. Annalicia later concedes that there is not a biological component to the perceived deficiencies in black men. Lav accuses everyone on the panel of being bad faith for assuming that Annalicia would even maintain such a position, to which Destiny counters that even he had such an impression of her. Annalicia is outraged at the other panel members as a result of this.
- 34:57 Aba joins the panel.
- 35:30 Alice and Destiny ask Annalicia what she thinks the reason black men are "failing" is. Citing a study, Annalicia replies that black mentorship and cultural revitalisation is needed. Destiny counters that this is a issue that could be said for many other races, to which Annalicia replies that the issues are primarily culture, mentality, (Lav chimes in that it's the patriarchy), and some historical implications.
- 37:02 Annalicia argues that there are some inherent deficiencies in black men, but maintains these deficiencies are not biological and can be changed. She later details that black women face a double standard with the criticism they receive relative to black men. She maintains that the criticisms levied on black women are individualistic while the criticisms towards black men are systematic in nature.
- 40:46 Lav describes her interpretation of Annalicia's arguments, Destiny tries to cut her off as she is not acknowledging some of the harmful prescriptions prevalent, but Lav continues to monologue(destiny is visibly upset by this).
- 46:48 After a noticeably heated one-sided exchange with Annalicia, Aba requests that she dial down the intensity. Annalicia responds that she is on her period, and Lav states that she is too.
- 49:58 Annalicia asserts that being with black men has been detrimental to black women. Destiny counters that Annalicia could phrase her argument less inflamatoraily by stating black women could just choose better partners as opposed to not choosing black ones. Lav quickly rebukes that Destiny is doing the "steve harvey thing", and Destiny tells Lav to shut the fuck up so Annalicia can respond.
- 51:36 Lav responds that she hears Annalica's argument perfectly, Destiny chides that this hurts Annalicia's position.
- 53:14 Annalicia describes why she believes black women have low self esteem.
- 58:00 Destiny reminds Lav that they are both white, and that the black members on the panel probably have no trouble showing empathy for one another.
- 1:01:30 Destiny details the plight of black men, describing systematic and societal issues they face. He goes on to describe how some "good black men" get in the crossfire of some of Annalica's arguments. Annalicia handwaves this as "mansplaining", and replies that not enough good black men exist.
- 1:12:16 Annalicia describes her issues with black men becoming partners with women of other races. Destiny acknowledges the issue, and points to the proclivity of black men to date women from other races.
- 1:24:45 Tree of Logic joins the stream. She begrudgingly agrees with a take given by Fanatic, that women have all the agency with regards to "who makes the babies".
- 1:27:53 Tree asks Annalicia what a "pookie" and "ray-ray" is. The two argue for some time, Tree is surprisingly calm while Annalicia is quite heated.
- 1:31:34 Annalicia becomes noticeably more angry as Tree presses her to define who "pookie" and "ray-ray" are.
- 1:32:26 Annalicia defines what a "pookie" and "ray-ray" are. She states that pookie and ray-ray are going to school, getting educated, coming from good socioeconomic standings, yet are still leaving single mothers behind with all races(i.e. Asian, Hispanic, white). When pushed, Annalicia elaborates that 70% of black men fall under this category. Tree takes issue with this, and accuses Annalicia of not providing enough agency to black women with regards to partner selection.
- 1:35:11 Lav requests permission to ask a question, Destiny shoots her down, but Tree allows her to ask anyways. Lav informs Tree that her and Annalicia want the same thing, for black women to live more empowered lives. Annalicia and Tree disagree with this acterization. Annalicia at one point calls Tree of Logic "remedial"(a somewhat PC version of the word retarded), and states it is very difficult for a black women to be able to "vet" partners.
- 1:38:58 Annalicia laments black women historically never being in a position to "ask for too much" with regards to their partners.
- 1:40:06 Tree states she has never complained about an ex-relationship all her life, Annalicia takes issue with this and attempts to interrupt her several times. Annalicia handwaves Tree's arguments as useless personal anecdotes, and argues that her experiences are the exception not the rule.
- 1:43:26 Lav states she has another question, and Tree tells her to shut the fuck up. The debate then gets even more heated.
- 1:47:06 Annalicia details the struggles of black women. First she critiques Trees argument that black people simply need to go to church to find guidance by pointing out that black people(specifically black women not black men) go to church more than any other minority group. She then refers to the fact that black men are more disgusted by single motherhood. She concludes that black men are not interested at all in being mentors.
- 1:49:44 4THOT enters the call.
- 1:50:33 Annalicia suggests if these black men are not mentoring these "fucking fatherless delinquent children" then they should not be having them.
- 1:54:46 Annalicia, likely unaware of Tree's statue, suggests that she "not go there" with her, to which Tree responds "the fuck you gonna do?" and laughs bombastically.
- 1:58:55 Annalicia and Fanatiq debate for some time.
- 2:00:09 Destiny quotes a statistic stating Black men are more likely to intermarry than black women.
- 2:02:31 Destiny shouts at Fanatiq, informs him that for once he's not the black person on a panel he's yelling at, and requests that Annalicia avoid from using "little rhetorical tricks".
- 2:04:18 Annalicia states white women are the standard for all beauty in women, Tree disagrees.
- 2:07:00 Annalicia asks what percentage of white women are getting assjobs.
- 2:08:04 Lav attempts to get the panel to watch a video breaking down interracial marriages while Annalicia is putting forth a point regarding black/white beauty standards. Annalicia is not happy with this, and Destiny is visibly amused. Destiny and fanatiq see the thumbnail of the video, and decide they'd be better off just having a conversation instead of watching it.
- 2:11:15 After several interruptions, Fanatiq informs Annalicia she has two minutes to finish her point. Annalicia retorts that Fanatiq cannot tell her what she has. Lav jumps in and states she needs to play her video for the panel.
- 2:12:39 Fanatiq repeatedly shouts the phrase "as I remember."
- 2:15:22 Anti, a black male with a PHD, joins the panel. He contends that black men are not achieving the same education rates as women due to higher incarceration rates.
- 2:19:44 Annalicia sarcastically states that black men are victims, and concludes they are incapable of not commiting crime, and raising children.
- 2:26:13 The panel completely derails as the black members on the panel talk over each other.
- 2:29:21 Annalicia and Fanatiq shout at each other. He repeatedly shouts the phrase "the Rally".
- 2:35: 03 Annalicia requests that Destiny whitesplain for her.
- 2:39:43 Aba yells at the panel for being overly combative.
- 3:09:09 The debate panel competently derails. Destiny suggests he could unmute one panel member at a time to get their points out uninterrupted.
- 3:13:34 Annalicia temporarily rage quits the panel.
- 3:16:32 Tree and Lav debate for some time regarding how fairly Annalicia was treated. She suggests that the other panel member were overly hostile to her.
- 3:27:14 Annalicia rejoins the panel and burns the bridge with Destiny.
- 3:34:25 Lav informs Tree that she can remain in the sunken place if she wishes to continue being led by men.
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