Lav: Difference between revisions
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At one point, Destiny directly confronts Lav regarding the "MrGirl allegations" and chides her for being MrGirl's star-witness. Lav claims that she merely provided MrGirl with some logs, and then accuses Destiny of being a "weaselly little worm" for deleting them. Destiny asserts that the reason he deleted those logs was to protect the other individuals involved, and that no possible log-leak could hurt him, but would damage the other individuals involved. Destiny continues, and states he would never confirm or deny a sexual relationship, for fear of harming the other individuals involved. Destiny goes on to address Lav's claims of him being the "Harvey Weinstein" of Twitch(aka utilizing sexual coercion with female orbiter), to which the main thrust of her argument is that she once sent Destiny a scantily clad photo and Destiny replied "welcome to the orbiters club". Destiny laughs this off, and chides Lav for thinking this was her "entry into his stream". Destiny then accuses Lav of looking at the most publicly facing sexual relationships Destiny has had, and trying to condemn all of his relationships by that standard, he goes on to accuse Lav of being a habitual liar. | At one point, Destiny directly confronts Lav regarding the "MrGirl allegations" and chides her for being MrGirl's star-witness. Lav claims that she merely provided MrGirl with some logs, and then accuses Destiny of being a "weaselly little worm" for deleting them. Destiny asserts that the reason he deleted those logs was to protect the other individuals involved, and that no possible log-leak could hurt him, but would damage the other individuals involved. Destiny continues, and states he would never confirm or deny a sexual relationship, for fear of harming the other individuals involved. Destiny goes on to address Lav's claims of him being the "Harvey Weinstein" of Twitch(aka utilizing sexual coercion with female orbiter), to which the main thrust of her argument is that she once sent Destiny a scantily clad photo and Destiny replied "welcome to the orbiters club". Destiny laughs this off, and chides Lav for thinking this was her "entry into his stream". Destiny then accuses Lav of looking at the most publicly facing sexual relationships Destiny has had, and trying to condemn all of his relationships by that standard, he goes on to accuse Lav of being a habitual liar. | ||
Lav accuses Destiny of talking shit about her for several months, and that she has remained silent. Destiny replies that he only brings MrGirl and Lav up when they bring him up, he then accuses Lav of sexually abusing him by leaking the details of their hookups with an individual whom she knows hates him. Destiny claims to have never spoken about any of the times Lav has talked shit about her fiance , Connor, publicly. Lav shrieks in response, and states that if Destiny wishes to have this conversation, he can never bring up her fiance again. Destiny responds that he will continue to do so, if she insists on shit talking his partner. Destiny continues, and claims Lav's entire online existence is dedicated to threatening to out him as the Harvey Weinstein of twitch. Lav denies this, to which Destiny reiterates that she is the star witness on the article, and that she is the individual who dragged REDACTED to MrGirl as another star witness. The conversation continues, and Destiny claims to have explictily messaged Lav in private to see if she's okay, and she allegedly responded in the affirmative. Lav claims she never thought Destiny was coercive or abusive, and that was MrGirl's perspective. Destiny then pointedly asks Lav what he has done to wrong her, to which Lav responds she can discuss that with Destiny in private. Destiny then claims that they have had this discussion in private, but Lav was already working with a guy at the time who was trying to wright a sexual-assault piece on him. Lav eventually confesses that she felt uncomfortable in their open-ended sexual relationship, and felt like Destiny was letting people(like Aba) shit on her. Destiny then asks Lav how she would respond in a hypothetical scenario where a conversation Lav was interested in discussing was occuring on stream, she wanted to join, and Destiny responded that she could not join because they hooked up, he claims Lav would not respond well. Lav then states she would respond kindly in such a scenario, to which Destiny accuses Lav of lying, and reiterates he in still unsure what he did wrong by her. | Lav accuses Destiny of talking shit about her for several months, and that she has remained silent. Destiny replies that he only brings MrGirl and Lav up when they bring him up, he then accuses Lav of sexually abusing him by leaking the details of their hookups with an individual whom she knows hates him. Destiny claims to have never spoken about any of the times Lav has talked shit about her fiance , Connor, publicly. Lav shrieks in response, and states that if Destiny wishes to have this conversation, he can never bring up her fiance again. Destiny responds that he will continue to do so, if she insists on shit talking his partner. Destiny continues, and claims Lav's entire online existence is dedicated to threatening to out him as the Harvey Weinstein of twitch. Lav denies this, to which Destiny reiterates that she is the star witness on the article, and that she is the individual who dragged REDACTED to MrGirl as another star witness. The conversation continues, and Destiny claims to have explictily messaged Lav in private to see if she's okay, and she allegedly responded in the affirmative. Lav claims she never thought Destiny was coercive or abusive, and that was MrGirl's perspective. Destiny then pointedly asks Lav what he has done to wrong her, to which Lav responds she can discuss that with Destiny in private. Destiny then claims that they have had this discussion in private, but Lav was already working with a guy at the time who was trying to wright a sexual-assault piece on him. Lav eventually confesses that she felt uncomfortable in their open-ended sexual relationship, and felt like Destiny was letting people(like Aba) shit on her. Destiny then asks Lav how she would respond in a hypothetical scenario where a conversation Lav was interested in discussing was occuring on stream, she wanted to join, and Destiny responded that she could not join because they hooked up, he claims Lav would not respond well. Lav then states she would respond kindly in such a scenario, to which Destiny accuses Lav of lying, and reiterates he in still unsure what he did wrong by her. | ||
The conversation continues, and Lav emphasies that she was a smaller content creator that Destiny should have protected. Destiny counters that Lav routinely bragged about being a larger content creator than him. He then questions why Lav would continuously invite the harassment, and brag about being a "villain". Lav claims that this was merely a cope to deal with public outcry, and claims that her suicidal feelings were not attributed to being on Destiny's stream but her use of benzos. Destiny points to a clip of Lav asserting that the worst times in her life was when she was drafted into a cult at 16, and then November when she was on his stream(during which she never claimed to be medicated). When pressed, she claims she didn't want to bring it up for fear of Destiny's community using it as an excuse. Lav then claims to have watched Destiny ban emotes in his chatroom, and cites this as a reason that he should do some "cleanup" around her. Destiny responds, that he did take actions, and that the criticism she received actually inspired the [[The_Anti-Misogyny_Arc| anti-misogyny arc]] within his community. | |||
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* [https://youtu.be/gWhF0jLTsro?t=1683 28:03] Lav begins to discusses the "nuances" of their relationship, to which Destiny tells Lav to shut up and that there were no nuances in their relationship as Destiny was overtly explicit about every aspect. | * [https://youtu.be/gWhF0jLTsro?t=1683 28:03] Lav begins to discusses the "nuances" of their relationship, to which Destiny tells Lav to shut up and that there were no nuances in their relationship as Destiny was overtly explicit about every aspect. | ||
* [https://youtu.be/gWhF0jLTsro?t=1779 29:39] Destiny asks Lav once more what he could have done differently in their relationship. Lav responds she's not sure, and that she's not a relationship coach. Destiny then asserts that Lav has no real issues with him, and questions why she is running to an individual trying to create a sexual-assault manifesto against him. | * [https://youtu.be/gWhF0jLTsro?t=1779 29:39] Destiny asks Lav once more what he could have done differently in their relationship. Lav responds she's not sure, and that she's not a relationship coach. Destiny then asserts that Lav has no real issues with him, and questions why she is running to an individual trying to create a sexual-assault manifesto against him. | ||
* [https://youtu.be/gWhF0jLTsro?t=1922 32:02] When pressed, Lav confesses that she doesn't think Destiny has done anything truly evil, but his actions have warranted a conversation. | |||
* [https://youtu.be/gWhF0jLTsro?t=2048 34:08] To Lav's point that she's a smaller content creator, and Destiny should have been more careful about criticism she received from his audience. Destiny counters that Lav routinely bragged about being a larger content creator than him. He then questions why Lav would continuously invite the harassment, and brag about being a "villain". Lav claims that this was merely | |||
a cope to deal with public outcry, and claims that her suicidal feelings were not attributed to being on Destiny's stream but her use of benzos. Destiny points to a clip of Lav asserting that the worst times in her life was when she was drafted into a cult at 16, and then November when she was on his stream. | |||
* [https://youtu.be/gWhF0jLTsro?t=2285 38:05] Lav claims to have watched Destiny ban emotes, and cites this as a reason that he should do some "cleanup" around her. Destiny responds, that he did take actions, and that the criticism she received actually inspired the [[The_Anti-Misogyny_Arc| anti-misogyny arc]] within his community. | |||
|} | |} | ||
Revision as of 13:56, 16 January 2024
Lea AKA LavLune is a singer, TikTok content creator, feminist and former OnlyFans content creator. She gained notoriety as one of the most contentious orbiters to appear on Destiny's stream. Her initial on-stream discussions focused primarily on her unique perspective on sex work debates as a former OnlyFans model. However, her proclivity to take strong positions on certain topics, coupled with a tendency to quickly reverse her positions and apologize post-debate, plunged these discussions into controversy. This behavior attracted severe criticism from much of Destiny's community, especially the subreddit members, which resulted in many "meta" discussions on how Destiny moderated his community. Lav frequently accused Destiny of creating an environment that antagonized his community against her, attributing this partly to his failure to moderate criticism of orbiters and his on-stream critiques of her, which also received negative reactions from the subreddit. She was eventually found assisting former orbiter MrGirl in developing a massive manifesto, and was excised from the community. She has changed her username many times, and currently goes by "impishlly". As of November 27, 2023, Destiny has claimed to have somewhat mended the bridge between himself and Lav(with some stipulations regarding what they may discuss).[1] Lav may appear on panels with Destiny(i.e. Kick or Keep), but any conversations related to personal issues/grievances the two may have will not be permitted.
On stream appearances with Destiny and dramas WIP
Destiny Moderates a debate between MrGirl and Lav
On June 12, 2022, Destiny reacted to a vod of Lav appearing on a call-in show hosted by MrGirl. During her call-in Lav debated topics involving gaslighting, boundaries, and abuse. The initial debate primarily centered around discussing what an individual should do if they heard their partner crying in another room. Lav was of the belief that when an individual feels themselves becoming emotionally dysregulated by an action their partner has done, and thinks they may lash out on their partner as a result of said action, the individual should self-regulate by taking a walk or creating some emotional/physical distance. MrGirl felt that such actions by an individual would make their partner feel abandoned, and that one should learn to emotionally regulate without withdrawing. Lav came away from the conversation feeling emotionality/physically frustrated, and even questioned if she was abusing her husband after hearing MrGirl's position.
While watching the debate, Destiny had trouble discerning what the two were actually debating about. He also noted that MrGirl never asked Lav any clarifying questions about her position, and was fairly aggressive throughout the conversation.
Debate Highlights(Destiny reacting to a vod of MrGirl and Lav) | |
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After watching the vod, Destiny decided to invite Lav onto his stream to offer her some debate advice. Soon after, MrGirl joined the call, and Destiny moderated a debate between the two.[2] With Destiny's assistance, the two were able to clearly lay out their positions. Despite this, the debate still became quite heated, and both debaters maintained the same positions they entered the call with.
Debate Highlights(Destiny moderating a debate between MrGirl and Lav) | |
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Destiny reacts to a panel featuring Lav
On August 6, 2022, Chudlogic hosted a panel to discuss sex work and OnlyFans.[3] Among the guests on this panel included Merrick Deville, Wickedsupreme, and Lav. Destiny had chosen to watch this panel because he was interested in Lav's perspective as an individual who quit creating OnlyFans content as a result of her interactions with MrGirl.[4]
Lav confronts Destiny in a Pre-Panel debate
On August 7, 2022, Lav confronted Destiny in a Pre-Panel debate, suggesting he misunderstood the financial struggles of sex workers when comparing them to other professions like doctors.[5] The discussion explored the societal implications of sex work, particularly in platforms like OnlyFans, touching on subjects such as the dehumanization of women, unrealistic beauty standards, and societal consumption of explicit content. They debated the role of personal responsibility, with Lav emphasizing the potential negative impacts of sex work on society, while Destiny argued that the issue lies more with societal engagement and overindulgence in technology than with sex work itself.
Debate Highlights | |
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Highlights from the panel include:
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Lav debates sex work and ethics on a ChudLogic panel
On August 7, 2022 Lav joined Destiny, Dan, Sneako, and MrGirl, to discuss several topics including OnlyFans, sex work, AI porn, and Dogwarts.[6] Much like her prior appearances, Lav takes the position that sex work is a net-negative to society and should be heavily regulated. As there are multiple sex-workers(TafTaj and Jenavive) on the call, much contention arises. This conversation quickly becomes heated as multiple "shit-stirrers" are present in the call.
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Highlights from this panel include:
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Lav hashes out her personal grievances with several orbiters on Destiny's stream
On August 11, 2022, Lav confronted several orbiters on Destiny's stream for several hours to hash out some perceived personal grievances the individuals had with one another(primarily between Brittany and Lav).[7] The "panel" initially started as a one on one discussion between Destiny and Lav, wherein she had many negative things to say about Brittany Simon. The conversation quickly devolved into a shouting match as more orbiters elected to join the discord call, and known shit-stirrer Dan contributed to the chaos. During the conversation, Lav and MrGirl try to convince a very high Brittany that her method of operating her Patreon and the “levels" system she utilizes are harmful. However, the disparate ways in which MrGirl and Lav present their messages leads to conflict between the two. By the end of the conversation Lav agrees with Brittany that she is smart enough to know what she's doing, and is truthfully engaging in harm reduction(she likely states this to spite MrGirl).
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Highlights from the panel include:
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Dan discusses a leaked recording of Lav trash talking Destiny
On August 12, 2022, Dan shed some light on a leaked recording involving Lav.[8] [9] This conversation occurred on ChudLogic's channel, and lasted around sixteen minutes. The conversation begins with a content creator in Chud's community, Kuihman, alleging that Lav lied about an individual stalking, calling the FBI on her, and posting a photo of her house on a private server. This all occurred after Lav lead a harassment campaign against the individual's friends.
Dan, Chud, and Kuihman go on to listen to a leaked call wherein Lav stated that Destiny wanted to suck her husband's cock, and that she would never sleep with him. In the call, Lav calls Destiny a "cheese-boy", elf, and troll-man. Dan says there are two possibilities, either Destiny is joking or a coomer.
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Lav discusses allegations made against her in a ChudLogic panel
On August 14, 2022, Lav joined a ChudLogic panel to discuss allegations made against her, Destiny listened to the covnersation for half an hour before he got bored.[10][11] During the call Lav confronts Kuihman over some alleged discord harassment campaigns he and his friends had organized against her.
Lav dispels the rumors about Destiny asking to suck her husband's cock. She reasons that she was just bantering and says many absurd things in discord calls, like wanting to fuck dogs(her preference is a Doberman). Lav goes on to say she'd be open to having sex with Destiny despite her bantering in the leaked call. She also states that her and Destiny were friends several months before she started to stream, implying any claims of her "clout-sharking" to be absurd.
Lav discusses sex work and feminism with Destiny, debates pornography with Kai Clips
On September 12, 2022, Lav had a discussion with Destiny regarding Feminism, Sex work, and her discord ban from MrGirl's server. [12]
In the discussion, Lav expresses her mixed feelings towards radical-feminism, asserting her disagreement with many of its tenets but agreeing with some. She emphasizes her lack of concern for transwomen's feelings, specifically mentioning she doesn't care if they don't want to be referred to as male. She also criticizes transwomen for discussing feminist issues related to female socialization. Destiny challenges Lav's rhetoric, warning against taking more "provocative" positions that may lead to social media backlash and a toxic community.
Discussing feminism, Lav identifies her main issue with radical-feminism as its perceived masculinization of women. She labels herself a cultural feminist, aiming for a society that emphasizes women's inherent qualities. Destiny argues that Lav's views might stem from a previously unexamined life, making her vulnerable to new abstract concepts. He uses her relationship with her appearance and her previous OnlyFans involvement to illustrate his point.
On the topic of sex-work's morality, Destiny probes Lav about power imbalances in male-female sexual relations. Lav suggests casual sex should be restricted to friends. Regarding sex-work, she criticizes the harmful content in porn and its accessibility to children. Lav believes women can't give informed consent in the current scope of sex work, but she'd accept it in a perfectly equal society.
Near the end of their debate, Destiny points out that Lav tends to take very strong positions on topics, scream at people, act smug about it, and then will later say she never felt very strong about the topic to begin with. Lav responds that she has difficulty managing the line between being entertaining and nuanced, and says she will attempt to rectify this issue.
Debate Highlights, Destiny vs Lav | |
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During the same stream, Kai Clips joins the call to debate pornography with Lav. While both oppose pornographic content, Kai feels Lav doesn't articulate her stance well. The primary distinction is that Lav thinks pornographic content could exist in a scenario where parties give perfect consent, but Kai believes it shouldn't exist at all.
Debate Highlights, Lav vs KaiClips | |
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Lav debates Trans issues with Destiny
On October 3, 2022, Lav debated Destiny on whether or not nonbinary trans people exist.[13] Destiny, through a good faith interpretation of Lav's position and some meaningful dialogue was able to move Lav towards a less extreme position.
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Destiny debates Lav and Zherka, featuring Chaeiry
On October 15, 2022 Destiny debated Lav and Zherka. Chaeiry eventually joined the call to discuss her annoyance with Lav.[14] The video starts with Lav talking about her new Patreon and her fallout with Chaeiry. Lav claims that Chaeiry "farmed" people against her, labeled her as racist, and obsessively responded to her content. Because Chaeiry was reviewing them, Lav made her vods private. Later, she shares that her experience in MrGirl's community made her strongly against sex work, and she expresses concern about the backlash from changing her stance. Destiny tells her that it's okay for her to change her views occasionally but advises her to avoid making strong statements throughout the process. Lav takes issue with this accusation, and the two debate for some time. Zherka eventually joins the conversation, sparking a debate about the femininity of men and what women genuinely seek in men.
Some time after Lav disconnects, Chaeiry joins the call to discuss the things Lav had said. She shows Destiny a clip of Lav on a political panel, wherein Lav calls herself "black and slow"(she plays this off as a Jesse Lee Peterson quote). Chaeiry's primary issue is Lav making racial jokes in the presence of several racist individuals.
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Destiny shouts at Lav in a panel addressing MrGirl allegations by Chaeiry AKA Destiny calls Lav a dumb bitch
On October 16, 2022, Destiny and a panel of orbiters have a discussion on some drama involving Chaeiry and Mrgirl, as well as a "nuke" Lav wanted to drop on Hasan.[15] Chaeiry had thought MrGirl had intentionally lifted his shirt to flash his stomach/lower body, and tweeted out a #metoo style tweet alongside Stardust with regards to it. Chaeiry seeing the backlash towards her accusations, decided to speak with Destiny to get some clarification as to where she messed up. The two talks for a few minutes, and after some further discussion(and some rather aggressive questioning by Chaeiry), Destiny concludes that to assume any maliciousness form MrGirl in this instance would be unreasonable.
Later on in the day, Dan joins the call followed by Lav, Aba, and Zherka. Lav brags about "being right" about Chaeiry's character, mentioning her toxicity and alleged mental illness, and defends MrGirl quite vehemently. Destiny takes issue with the harshness of Lav's criticisms, and the two discuss for some time. Throughout the conversation Lav derides Chaiery's character,insults her, and accuses her of betraying MrGirl's friendship and trust. The conversation goes on for about twenty minutes before the panel discusses sex work. Noticing a lull in the topics, Ahrelevant joins the call to debate with Lav about the ethicacy of online pornograophy, and her heavy-handedness during debates. This conversation quickly gets derailed as Darius enters the call to shout at Lav.
The conversation becomes even more personal when Aba expresses his disdaine for Lav, calling her a version of Sneako with less charisma. He goes on to point to Lav's ability to take strong moral stances on topics she has no prior knowledge on, Lav takes issue with this and the two(along with Ahrel) discuss for some time. Shortly after this conversation, Lav alludes to a "nuke" on Hasan. Destiny stops her from dropping the nuke, stating she will end her whole career over this and that the allegations are not strong enough. Eventually Chaeiry joins the call to confront Lav, and the two argue for some time. MrGirl enters the call shortly after Chaeiry, and recreates the pose that was clipped. The setup he recreates the pose in has much better lighting, and shows that only his abdomen and love handles are visible(no pubes to be seen).
Chaeiry and MrGirl debate for some time. Eventually Chaeiry agrees that MrGirl's lower back, and not his butt was shown. MrGirl, citing himself as being in survival mode, qualifies his defense by stating one should "believe all women" in these cases and acknowledges that Chaeiry may have felt uncomfortable. Naturally, the conversation shifts focus back to Lav(after she accuses Chaiery of lying) and Destiny is forced to explain to her what a lie is. While in the middle of defining what a lie is, Lav interrupts Destiny, he responds by calling her a "dumb bitch". Several more people interrupt Destiny, and he threatens to ban the entire panel. Destiny snaps once more, saying this whole situation is a nothing burger that nobody will remember, and that MrGirl should probably be going much harder on Chaeiry as a result of her actions. MrGirl eventually leaves, and the panel members then turn their attention to Lav and criticize her for treating Chaiery poorly during the discussion. Lav and Chaiery continue to argue about whether Chaiery lied, and in the end, Lav angrily exits the call.
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Destiny confronts Lav after reacting to her talking about him on other streams AKA Destiny takes off the "kids gloves" and yells at Lav
On October 23, 2022, Destiny watches several clip of Lav speaking about him on other streams. [16]. During the clips, Lav makes the following statements that Destiny takes issue with:
- She states she is less interested in teaching Destiny how to treat her, and more interested in having relationships with people who already already know how to respect her. Destiny responds that Lav is cringe, young, and naive. Especially when it comes to establishing boundaries with other people.
- She agrees with MrGirl's claim that nobody who has ever loved Destiny has ever pushed back against him. Destiny again, expresses his frustration with watching a 24 year old, whose opinions he has observed change frequently, trying to psychoanalyze his relationship.
- She maintains that Chaeiry and Stardust were purposely malicious in their attempted cancellation of MrGirl, and accuses Destiny of not coming to MrGirl's aid. Destiny responds that the overwhelming majority of online spaces were coming out against Chaiery and Stardust, and found it unnecessary to add on to the criticism they were receiving as a result of the accusation.
Eventually, Lav joins the stream to confront Destiny. Lav claims she never "talked shit" about Destiny on other streams, and accuses Destiny of "emboldening" his community against her and breeding misogyny. She also maintains that Destiny's audience has many groypers in it harassing her. Destiny responds that he polices against misogyny heavily in his community, and points out that Lav has spent much time on Groyper platforms. He clarifies that this is is likely where the harassment she receives is coming from. The two debate for some time, regarding the perceived Misogyny in Destiny's community(primarily the subreddit), Lav's characterization of Destiny on other streams, and Lav's behavior in debates.
Throughout their conversation, Destiny attempts to make clear to Lav that her on-stream issues do not stem from her unfamiliarity with debate spheres. Instead they stem from her habit of belittling other people who hold differing views from her, and then changing her mind on these views the next day. Destiny points out that Lav perfectly situates herself in most conversations to sit on either side of the fence on a given topic. And when she confronts an individual on that topic, she flips to the "good side" of that fence. The conversation gets quite emotional with Lav even sobbing through her arguments at one point. Lav eventually apologizes and says she was wrong, and that she does not truly think Destiny's audience is filled with groypers or misogynists.
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Orbiter Civil War AKA Lav and 12 other orbiters yell at each other for several hours
On October 24, 2022, Lav and several other orbiters held a discussion for several hours on Destiny's stream.[17][18] The "prelude" to the civil war, involved Brittany and Destiny discussing the "real-world" impact of streamers, and the potentiality for certain orbiters(i.e MrGirl and Lav) to betray Destiny.
Prelude Highlights | |
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Aba eventually joins the call, and the Orbiter Civil War officially kicks off. The primary contention starts between Aba and Lav. Aba claimed most discussions with Lav are pointless, as she will always fall back on being "young and naive" whenever she's proven wrong in a discussion. Destiny tries to moderate the discussion between the two, as he sees no issue in Lav's ignorance as long as she eventually admits fault. Each orbiter(outside of Brittany), seemingly had a "problem":
- Brittany has no problems, she's just an observer.
- Chaiery has a problem regarding the fallout of her failed cancellation of MrGirl and animosity towards Lav.
- Dan wants to stir up drama.
- Lav has a problem with Destiny's community attitude towards her, nobody taking her seriously, and a general animosity toward Chaiery.
- MrGirl is mad about Destiny's community(primarily the subreddit and it's moderation). He feels the subreddit is part of a system of discrediting other orbiters, and making them look bad.
- Stardust has issues with her and MrGirl's friendship deteriorating as a result of MrGirl's attempted cancellation.
Destiny first addresses the issues with Lav. Lav accuses Destiny of tarnishing her reputation by labeling her as being young and naive, which leads the subreddit to echo this sentiment. Destiny responds, asserting that his intention is not to discredit her but to provide an explanation for the seemingly contradictory and highly irrational nature of some of her statements. He clarifies his stance on Lav’s behavior, describing it as manipulative, and he details his reasons for perceiving some of her actions as gaslighting.
Destiny's contentions with MrGirl arise in the form of a debate on community responsibility. MrGirl and Lav argue that Destiny shouldn't call out the mistakes of smaller content creators on his stream because it might turn his audience against them. For instance, MrGirl thinks Lav should have the freedom to call anyone a "dumb bitch" on stream, but believes Destiny shouldn't, because his audience would deride the "dumb bitch" in question. Destiny counters that he would never allow anyone to get away with poor behavior on his stream, regardless of their size. Chaiery, Pxie, and Brittany take Destiny's side, and argue that MrGirl and Lav are attempting to absolve themselves from all responsibility for their actions by blaming Destiny for the community's behavior towards them. Throughout this discussion, Lav does not speak much and only chimes in to echo whatever sentiment MrGirl conveys.
A discussion emerges over the relative meanness of Destiny and MrGirl. Destiny confesses that his own words are often "meaner," but he also highlights the significant impact of MrGirl's way of framing certain issues. He compares his own insult towards Lav, calling her a dumb bitch, to MrGirl’s statement that Chaiery is "incapable of having a conversation." Feeling attacked in this conversation, MrGirl labels the other orbiters in the call "white blood cells" because they rally to counteract his points against Destiny. THroughout this portion of the conversation, several of the other orbiters in the call point out that MrGirl arguments make it seem like he wishes to avoid all "responsibility" for his actions on stream, by wishing to never be called out on any poor behavior. Near the end of this conversation, Lav decides to bring up REDACTED as an example of abused orbiters. Lav claims that REDACTED was a normal women that was tormented and demonized by Destiny's community. Destiny takes issue with this and the two discuss for some time.
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Destiny reacts to an emotional Lav stream
On October 29, 2022, Destiny reacted to an emotional stream featuring Lav.[19]. Throughout the video, Lav maintains a somber demeanor and tone while clutching her knees to her chest in the fetal position. She addresses her problems with Destiny criticizing her on-stream behavior, and openly shares her distress about Destiny labeling her as an abuser in front of "several thousand people". As the video plays, Destiny tackles any dubious arguments presented in the VOD and responds to questions from the chat about Lav's behavior, such as her mental block concerning how others perceive her. Destiny's major criticism of Lav is that she tends to make her "feelings" into statements of fact, and tends to leverage her emotional state to win arguments(hence the abuse accusations towards Lav).
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Lav discusses misogyny and community moderation on a panel featuring Aba and Sneako
On October 28, 2022, Lav discussed Misogyny and community moderation on a panel featuring many orbiters including Aba, Sneako, Counterpoints, and Rem.[20] The video begins with Lav apologizing for bringing up REDACTED in a previous conversation, and Destiny responding that he doesn't give a fuck. Soon after, Aba takes the chance to confront Lav about her habit of speaking impulsively. In return, Lav accuses Aba of being a misogynist, leading to a prolonged debate between members of the panel over Lav's behavior and her tendency to speak without thinking. Throughout the conversation, Sneako routinely asks Lav what she's wearing and requests she turn her camera on. Meanwhile, Rem shit stirs with Dan's assistance, Erudite earnestly tries to guide Lav to a more reasonable stance, and Destiny struggles, albeit unsuccessfully, to moderate the panel's aggression and overt misogyny. Counterpoints works to uncover the valid points in Lav's "bullshit," even preparing a document to support his case, while Aba consistently criticizes Lav, likening her to a youthful, naive, and irritating version of Sneako in a wig, and labels her a detrimental figure for women in the midst of the anti-misogyny discourse.
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Destiny and Dan recap MrGirl Bridge Burning and Lav's Future
On November 1, 2022 Dan and Destiny had a conversation recapping MrGirl's bridge burning and Lav's future as an orbiter.[21] The two anticipate MrGirl to make a comeback after his pattern of temporary internet departures, similar to a tactic which Dan dubs as the "REM maneuver." Despite the complications with MrGirl, Lav consistently returns from breaks with more strength, although her departures are brief and somewhat performative. There is a debate over whether Max will abandon his principles for the practical benefits of returning online, challenging his established persona of authenticity through resistance to change. Max's inflexible methodology and extreme bridge-burning are highlighted as potentially problematic, with a rigid self-perception that rejects adaptation. Destiny suggests that Max will likely create a rationale to justify his return to the internet, potentially with some changes to his approach, unlike Lav, who has more leeway to evolve due to her less absolute commitments.
Aba Gets Called Out And Dragged Into an Impromptu Debate featuring Lav
On November 4, 2022 Aba, Brittany Simon, Dan, Politically Provoked's Brittany, Lav, and several other orbiters engaged in an impromptu debate on sex work, OnlyFans, and Relationships.[22] The video begins with a debate between Politically Provoked Brittany and several other orbiters(including Lav) debating the feasibility of OnlyFans workers like Lav taking public stances against misogyny. The conversation then shifts to an argument over whether or not an individual can ever have "healthy" conversations with an OnlyFans content creator. Destiny maintains it's possible for a healthy discussion to be had, but it's impossible to know from an outside perspective. Chaiery, Brittany Simon and other orbiters take issue with Destiny's perspective and the panel discusses for some time. This conversation eventually evolves into a discussion of individuals becoming lonelier in society, and having fewer friends, Destiny and Aba agree this is likely a result of the internet/technology while Brittany disagrees this is the primary cause. At some point during this conversation, Lav states that Destiny convinced her to close her relationship, as a result of viewing how he engages in open relationships. This results in a personal debate between Lav and Destiny over whose life is more "niche" or unmaintable for the average person. Lav argues that the way Destiny manages her open relationship is a "niche", while Destiny counters that a partner being okay with someone who posts nudes on OnlyFans and Twitter is also an oddity.
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Destiny discusses Lex Fridman and Lav
On November 5, 2022 Destiny discussed Lex Fridman and Lav during viewer call-ins. Destiny brings up at around twenty-two minutes into the call-ins that Lex thinks Lav has a "really beautiful mind", and is fascinated by her.[23] Destiny found this very amusing as Lex even shared this sentiment with Melina(who was not very fond of Lav at the time).
Lav and Sneako go on a "date"
On November 6, 2022 Lav and Sneako went on an "E-date" over discord.[24] During their date, the two actively engage in a multi-faceted discussion, starting off jovially before delving into more serious topics. Initially, they clear up a misunderstanding about a YouTube clip before Sneako teases Lav about not lighting candles, which sparks a lighthearted exchange on effort in dating. As the conversation deepens, Lav defines her position as a modern feminist, differentiating herself from third-wave feminist ideals, and shares her experiences as an entertainer and former signed artist. Sneako contributes his perspective, challenging Lav on the implications of sex work and questioning the consistency of feminist principles with some of Lav's personal choices. Sneako also brings up the idea that modern feminism sometimes equates to adopting traits traditionally associated with men, reflecting on the broader societal shifts and the repercussions of such changes on gender roles and expectations. They delve into the intricacies of sex work, with Lav recounting her personal history and the resulting feelings of dehumanization from her time in the industry. Their dialogue broadens to cover a range of topics including personal values, experiences with sex and relationships, and societal views on these matters, reflecting a nuanced exploration of contemporary cultural debates.
Lav and Melina fire shots at one another on their streams
On October 28, 2022 Melina, Destiny's wife, discussed her frustrations with watching Lav and several other orbiters interactions with Destiny on stream.[25] Melina actively expresses her frustration with ongoing drama involving Lav and draws parallels to manipulative behaviors she recognizes from her sister. She expresses discomfort with how some of Stephen's friends and acquaintances(i.e. Brittany), who lack a deep understanding of him, overly analyze and discuss his personal life and relationships, considering it inappropriate. She goes on to say that such behavior is "creepy" and quite "parasocial" when they attempt to analyze Destiny's behavior(i.e. saying "Oh Steven actually thinks this..."). Melina also shares concerns about the superficial nature of online interactions and friendships, especially those revolving around Stephen. She emphasizes the strong physical and emotional connection she shares with Stephen, contrasting this with the shallow and obsessive behavior she observes online. She contrasts the relationship between an individual who just communications with Destiny over text messages, and one of his ex-girlfriends. Throughout the video, Melina underscores her disdain for the manipulative and victim-playing tactics in online communities and her desire for more authentic and meaningful interactions.
On November 6, 2022 Lav reacted to a video highlighting all of Melina's criticisms of her on stream. [26] On her stream, Lav actively challenges Melina's behavior, directly stating, "this is the opposite of maturity" and labeling Melina's actions as "very weird."In response to a perceived criticism of being babied her entire life for being pretty, Lav emphasizes her own hardships, including family neglect and substance addiction. She goes on to claim that Melina is unfairly making assumptions about her life, much like she accused Lav of doing with Destiny. Confused, Lav questions Melina's claims about Destiny treating her like a child, asserting that Destiny's charitable and nice behavior is misconstrued. In response to Melina's "psychoanalysis" accusations, Lav counters that Melina is psychoanalyzing her and points out that Destiny's highly public life, as he streams every day, makes such analysis not unwarranted. She further elaborates that both Brittany and she have personal relationships with Destiny, granting them the right to discuss him. She then accuses Melina of avoiding mentioning Destiny on her stream, claiming that Melina receives more donations when she refrains from doing so. Lav concedes that she does not know Destiny as well as an ex-girlfriend would(as Melina claimed), but caveats that they know him enough through their interactions on stream to warrant discussion on his behavior. Concluding her response, Lav highlights her openness to criticism and feedback, asserting she handles it better than most streamers, while also sharing her personal views on open relationships and her interactions with Steven.
Lav joins a debate panel featuring Low Tier God and JiDion
On November 6, 2022 Lav took part in a panel discussing anti-Semitism and black issues, featuring JiDion, Low Tier God, Aba, Counterpoints, Pxie, and Darius.[27] The panel opens with a debate about the importance of voting in presidential elections. JiDion, Aba, and Low Tier God argue that voting in these elections is unimportant and further state that they view former President Obama's tenure as ineffective. In contrast, other panelists dispute this view, emphasizing the significance of voting and the impact of Obama's presidency. The conversation then narrows to a more specific focus on the black community, exploring both the opportunities and challenges for its improvement. Later, the discussion transitions to address the problem of antisemitism in black communities.
The discussion on antisemitism remained moderate until Lav introduced the topic of increasing integration between white and black people online, a trend she perceived as problematic. She expressed concerns about black communities adopting antisemitic behaviors similar to those found among whites on the internet, drawing a parallel to Nazi Germany. Lav further elaborated on how she sees groypers and black individuals uniting online to ridicule Jews, highlighting the negative impact of this integration. She goes on to describe how a Jewish man is more likely to be hate crimed on the street than a black man, and laments the lack of institutions protecting Jewish people as they do African Americans. This led to a discussion on recent events which resulted in several NBA stars apologizing for perceived antisemitic remarks from Kyrie Irving. Aba thought it was strange how quick they were to jump to the defense of Jewish people, Lav argued that they were just defending their friends, and JiDeon questioned the reasoning for asking someone like Shaq or LeBron to denounce the remarks (as opposed to a Jewish NBA star). The conversation heats up as Lav remarks that Jewish people went through a genocide, and cites this as a reason for needing to be more critical of individuals who speak out against Jewish individuals. Aba takes issue with this claim, and argues that Jewish people need to move on from their past, similar to how African Americans needed to move on from slavery. Aba goes on to recommend that Jewish individuals like Lav should pick themselves up by their bootstraps and move on from their former oppression. At some point during the conversation Lav accuses Aba of being antisemitic for assuming she was pro-Israel just because she's Jewish.
The conversation takes a turn for some time as Pxie prods Low Tier God on his claim that black people need to make better decisions. They discuss "the talk" black parents give their children about police interactions and other systematic issues. Pxie appears to believe that some of Low Tier God's arguments might make him seem like a "pick-me" for Republican bootstraps talking points, and tries to argue from a "meta" perspective on systematic black issues, such as the potential for encountering a racist cop. Meanwhile, Low Tier God argues from a desire to improve the lives of other African American individuals. At one point Pxie asks Low Tier God to acknowledge that it's possible for a black person to act on their best behavior and still get fucked over by a racist. Lav feels the need to answer for Low Tier God here, and assures Pxie that Low Tier God knows this. Low Tier God responds that he does not believe this, and Lav once again attempts to run defense for him by responding that Pxie is attempting to "posture over a black man". Later on, Low Tier God laments that the only way African Americans can earn money on a large scale is through entertainment. He goes on to question why wealthy African Americans would even want to risk their wealth by making antisemitic remarks, and argues that they themselves damage the community. Destiny and Low Tier God then discuss for some time the systematic issues prevalent in black communities.
r/Destiny was not fond of Lav's performance during the debate and created many posts criticsing and poking fun at Lav. One such post, has Lav appearing in blackface.[28]
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A debate panel featuring Lav, Aba, and Annalicia gets derailed. Lav suggests that Tree of Logic is in the "sunken place"
On November 7, 2022, Lav participated in a panel featuring Aba, Annalicia, Pxie, 4THOT, Fanatiq, and Tree of Logic.[30] The panel members primarily discussed issues involving challenges in the black community, including fatherlessness, racial dynamics, and the impact of economic factors on family structures. The debate features a range of opposing viewpoints on these issues, but personal attacks and accusations of racism frequently disrupt the constructive exchange of ideas. Annalicia and Lav were of the opinion that black men made poor fathers, and that black men were more or less detrimental to the success of black women. The two frequently backed each others viewpoints as they debated against several of the aforementioned orbiters.Frequently throughout the panel, Annalicia would be asked a pointed question regarding her position, Lav would chime in before Annalicia could speak, and a panel member would tell Lav to let Annalicia speak. The panel eventually devolved into a shouting match between several black people on the panel, as Annalicia vehemently defended her points against Fanatiq, Tree, and Anti (a black phd student).
During the panel, Lav cited incarceration statistics of black men and crime rates as reasons for them being poor fathers. She also recommended that Straighterade should trust and listen to Anna's experience as a black woman. This led 4THOT to introduce a black female therapist, Alice Jay, who challenged Lav's views on absent black fathers, asserting their involvement when not absent. Lav dismissed Alice's perspective, claiming she only saw privileged clients. However, Alice countered by stating her work in an underserved area and mentioned many of her patients are on Medicaid. Despite this, Lav insisted that these individuals are still privileged and niche. She shared her upbringing in Englewood, California, surrounded by black people, and noted that none of them recognized mental illnesses in their children, a trend she attributed to the black community. Straighterade highlighted the irony of Lav speaking condescendingly to a black woman shortly after affirming the authority of black women on this subject. Instances like this, resulted in many accusations from the broader DGG community of Lav and Annalicia disrupting the flow of the debate and hindering a focused and constructive exchange of ideas.
At some point Tree of Logic joins the stream, she begrudgingly agrees with a take given by Fanatic, that black women have all the agency with regards to "who makes the babies". This results in a debate between Annalicia(backed by Lav), Tree of Logic, and the other members of the panel. The debate unfortunately gets heavily mired by Annalicia's refusal to define what a "pookie" and "ray-ray" are, this results in the two becoming incredibly heated early on in their discussion. Annalicia eventually does define what a "pookie" and "ray-ray" are. She states that these individuals are going to school, getting educated, coming from good socioeconomic standings, yet are still leaving single mothers behind with other races(i.e. Asian, Hispanic, white). When pushed, Annalicia elaborates that 70% of black men fall under this category. Tree takes issue with this, and accuses Annalicia of not providing enough agency to black women with regards to partner selection. While Tree is giving her response, Lav stops her to inform Tree that her and Annalicia want the same thing, for black women to live more empowered lives. Annalicia disagrees with this characterization and at one point calls Tree remedial(a more pc version of the word "retarded"). Lav would then pause the two mid-conversation a second time to ask a question, and Tree requested that Lav shut the fuck up. Lav attempted to interrupt the conversation one more time to get the panel members to watch a video breaking down interracial marriages, but is shot down repeatedly. In an attempt to defend Annalicia, Lav accuses the other panel members of being unfair in their critiques and overly hostile to Annalicia. She would go on to suggest that Tree is in "the sunken place", after Tree accuses her of "whitesplaining" and states she's fine with being led by a man.
Much like her previous appearance with JiDeon and Low Tier God, Lav was met with much criticism on the subreddit as a result of her debate performance. Once again some posts depicted Lav in black face, while others took a more tempered approach to their critiques of Lav.[31]
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Destiny reacts to a clip of Lav on Chudlogic's stream
On November 7, 2022, Lav appeared on a stream with Chudlogic to discuss her recent showings on Destiny's stream and her recent behavior since joining the "pol" community.[32]
Destiny responded to a clip from this panel on November 9, 2022. [33] In the clip, Lav states that Destiny's community is overrun with misogynistic douchebags. Fellow panelist Wickedsupreme tries to counter this accusation, but Lav intensifies her criticism, labeling even the moderators in DGG as incels.Upon hearing this, Destiny jokingly proposes creating a training course for potential stream participants to understand true internet hostility.He elaborates that if an individual is feeling "broken" as a result of their interactions with DGG, they are simply not cut out for the online space in general. He jokingly suggests that one of the lessons in the orbiter training camp, would be people simultaneously hacking the orbiter's twitter account, while calling them racial slurs, making death threats, and creating a subreddit dedicated to hating the individual and their entire existence(all things which have happened to Destiny). He then compares this to DGG, who might make mean subreddit posts about individuals, and occasionally show up in twitter replies/mentions. Destiny points to a recent video he watched involving Lav and Mrgirl, in which Lav was "literally crying" because she was banned from r/Destiny. Destiny mockingly compares this to a dick-pic of his which was embedded in the CSS of a subreddit for several months.
Later on in the video Destiny is told: "Apparently she read a text of you telling her good job for her appearance, but not good enough because you didn't' defend her against melina." Destiny responds that he does not wish to stand between Lav and Melina, and that he doesn't care for their disagreements with one another. Destiny then reads the exact message he sent "Good job you contributed well tonight, you're a tenacious one i'll give you that." Destiny proceeds to read a complaint from Lav regarding critcisiams she received from RightToBearArmsLOL, to which Destiny responded RTBA is "his own proud bear, talk to him". Destiny encourages Lav to publicly reveal their private messages if she ever feels he's being duplicitous, underscoring his disapproval of being portrayed as two-faced.
Destiny Reacts To MrGirl And Lav Crying Together
On November 9, 2022 Destiny reacted to a MrGirl stream titled "Misogyny with Lav". [34] MrGirl and Lav begin their conversation by discussing Lav's involvement in sex-work, where MrGirl suggests that she integrates misogyny into her profession. Their discussion then shifts to the presumedly severe critique they face from r/destiny. During the discussion, Lav reveals that she has implored Destiny to be mindful of her feelings regarding the subreddit's criticism. She argues that misogyny is a widespread issue affecting all women, noting that attractive women, like herself(especially those in the upper echelons of attractiveness in which she believes herself to be a part of), often face more severe scrutiny. Lav mentions that 70% of the criticism directed at her from the subreddit bring up how attractive she is, and that she's "killing herself" trying to internalize all the criticism she receives. The climax of the stream occurs when MrGirl strongly advises Lav to distance herself from Destiny's orbit, explaining that he left it himself as an example for her, and both end up crying.
The discussion continues, and Lav discusses her grievances with Destiny's moderation team, initially focusing on her conflicts with 4THOT and subsequent ban from the subreddit. She then discusses an interaction with RightToBearArmsLOL, who, according to her, messaged her concerning her accusation of antisemitism directed at Aba. She alleges that RightToBearArmsLOL warned her about a potential ban if she "weaponizes her Jewishness against Aba again." When Destiny reviews these messages, he comments that their content doesn't seem as serious as Lav had portrayed. Destiny proceeds to outline the "abuser-tactic" MrGirl utilizes to convince Lav.
"If you're trying to convince somebody to do something, that they're kind of half in on, that you kind of want them to do... usually when people are trying to seal the deal... the goal of most people is to push them all the way to be fully on board with this(aka full commitment to an action), that's what you want to push them towards. But if you wanna be really manipulative, the real goal is to have them emotionally roped in enough so that you have them right here(bordering on acceptance of committing an action), and then as soon as you know you've got them, you pull back completely, and then you go hands-off, and then you let them argue the rest of the way so they feel like they're the ones who are moving themselves this way(fully bought in). It lets you remove full responsibility from the decision later."-Destiny outlining how MrGirl convinced Lav 52:52
As Destiny resumes the video, MrGirl alleges that Destiny banned him from r/destiny due to concerns that he might influence his community against Destiny. MrGirl asserts that Destiny is on precarious grounds, fearful of losing everything. He further speculates that Destiny relies on a constant influx of orbiters for his followers to dogpile on. Lav then asks for MrGirl to refrain from talking about Destiny's life any further, for fear that they will be "torn to shreds" if they do(she still wishes to discuss his community). She claims to want to leave Destiny's community, but wants to also look "strong". MrGirl claims the narrative after he left Destiny's orbit, was that he tried to take over the subreddit, and failed, so he left but is desperate for their approval and attention so he'll probably be back any moment. In the ongoing discussion, MrGirl expresses his sadness over the numerous "pro-Aba" posts on the subreddit, and he asserts that the community is bound to eventually tear him down, and that nobody is safe. MrGirl claims that the one way to enable Lav to come back on Destiny's stream with no boundaries, is for him to suck up all of the anger from the community, so she doesn't have to.
Lav then moves on to share her grievances regarding Destiny's behavior, contrasting his on-stream demeanor with his off-stream actions. She expresses frustration about how Destiny often praises her intelligence and how great she is on stream , yet she feels mistreated by him during live streams. As an example, Lav cites a situation where Destiny messaged her about her excellent performance on stream, but then allowed Melina to criticize her on her own stream.
As the stream concludes, Destiny claims Lav contradicts herself a lot, is internally incoherent, is inconsistent with her own beliefs, and in the process of changing constantly internally. Destiny qualifies that Lav is still very smart, however he can understand why people would perceive her to be "stupid" seeing her exhibit the aforementioned negative qualities. Destiny then points to how people will go to debate Lav, she will constantly do 1v4 debates, where people will fail against her as they did not bring "receipts" to back their arguments.
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Destiny addresses Lav's Allegations and Exposes MrGirl
On November 10, 2022, Destiny responded to several allegations from Lav, and exposed a manifesto she had been working on with MrGirl behind the scenes. [35] This stream occured following a call in which Lav debated several DGGers regarding REDACTED.
Destiny discusses what MrGirl and Lav have been doing behind the scenes, details his relationship with the two
At the beginning of the stream, Destiny recounts the events from the past few months up to the present and laments the current situation he finds himself in. He explains that his online interactions with most people have a minimal impact on his emotions, noting that only three people could significantly affect him in this way. However, following a recent tumultuous interpersonal drama, Destiny decides to initiate offline engagements with these individuals to foster more "human" interactions. The two people that Destiny decided to attempt these offline engagement with were MrGirl and Lav. Destiny comments that Lav, REDACTED, and Shaelin are not really at fault, describing MrGirl as a narcissistic manipulator who abuses everyone around him. He refers to MrGirl's interactions with Lav on his stream, noting the change in Lav's behavior. Destiny also mentions hearing Shaelin's comments on Chudlogic's streams and the messages he received from REDACTED. From these observations, he deduces that MrGirl has been emotionally abusing, manipulating, and gaslighting these individuals, influencing their feelings to suit his desires. Later on in the stream, Destiny describes how he started to receive direct messages from individuals a few days ago. These messages informed Destiny that MrGirl had been reaching out to every single women Destiny has ever had in the background on his discord, coupled with several men trying to get lists of women that Destiny has ever spoken to. Destiny then details the "fetish" MrGirl accuses him of possessing:
"He(MrGirl) has built up this idea that I have essentially the following fetish: I approach a women, float the idea of her being on my stream, I fuck them, then I bring her on stream and I have my entire fan base attack her because I get off on that, and then I run her out of my community. He's built this narrative after farming REDACTED for information... He's trying to find every other girl that i've spoken to, to see if he could get similar stories out of them." -Destiny
Destiny goes on to explain Lav's part in this manifesto, describing how she had revealed that destiny and her had hooked-up to MrGirl. Destiny goes on to explain his annoyance with Lav accusing him of only defending certain individuals because they hooked-up, despite the fact that he had hooked-up with her. Destiny returns focus to MrGirl and lists off what he knows about MrGirl investigative efforts:
- MrGirl has contacted at least 20-30 women
- MrGirl has been desperately attempting to get into contact with Denims and Badbunny
- MrGirl is mutual friends with every single girl on Destiny's friends list. Destiny hypothesizes that MrGirl is likely calling these girls and attempting to convince them that Destiny is acting improper or wrong.
Destiny explains that this is frustrating due in part to the fact that MrGirl is only able to confront these individuals due to very personal/private information Destiny had provided to him(something Destiny rarely does). Destiny proceeds to accuse MrGirl of using this information to deceive others and attack him covertly. Destiny claims he was a good friend to MrGirl and Lav, but assumes they don't reciprocate these feelings due to the subreddit's negative response to their onstream appearances. He continues, asserting he possesses substantial evidence of MrGirl's behind-the-scenes actions. Destiny highlights Lav's comparison of him to Harvey Weinstein, attributing it to his sexual encounters with many individuals from his community(something that corresponds with MrGirl's aforementioned "fetish" accusation"). Destiny continues, and reaffirms he has no problem with MrGirl, Lav or anybody who would like to "metoo" him leaking any direct message history if they feel he has acted improper. Destiny does however express concern that MrGirl's ability to manipulate people may result in him convincing some of the individuals to believe they were actually abused(he likens this to Chaiery and Stardust's attempts at cancelling MrGirl). Destiny then remarks that he has considered pulling the plug on MrGirl's website, but has hesitated. He later expresses his frustrations in "baby-walking" individuals like Lav and MrGirl through conversations to show them where they contradict themselves/or why viewers might "hate" them, only to be called abusive by the two in response.
Highlights- Destiny recaps the events so far | |
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MrGirl joins the call
MrGirl joins the call, seemingly after Destiny describes the situation involving MrGirl, Shaelin(MrGirl's partner), and Lav as "incredibly creepy". He accuses Destiny of sexting consistently with REDACTED for a year and lying about REDACTED's alleged stalking. To which Destiny retorts the two have no problems with one another anymore, have been fine for a year, and are even friends currently. Destiny then chides MrGirl for making this the lynchpin of his manifesto. The two then debate for some time regarding Destiny's relationship with REDACTED. At one point Destiny, seemingly annoyed, mutes MrGirl so that he may elucidate on a position. MrGirl leaves shortly after. This is the last direct conversation the two have had.
Highlights- MrGirl joins the call | |
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Destiny addresses Lav's allegations
Shortly after MrGirl leaves, Destiny diverts more attention towards Lav. One of Lav's primary allegations towards Destiny, was likening him to Harvey Weinstein. He comments that Lav and MrGirl share the same views about his alleged 'fetish' and his behavior as a manipulative abuser. He goes on to remark that Lav has been obsessed with MrGirl for months, and will agree with whatever he says. Destiny believes Lav was easily manipulated by MrGirl through the following tactic:
"If you apply enough pressure to somebody, when you let up off that pressure, it's always gonna feel good... This is like the classic good-cop, bad-cop played by one person... you(MrGirl) do this in every conversation you do, you always try to get someone to the edge of crying, and then once they're crying, you ease up on all the pressure, you have a nice moment of silence so they can reflect and process their emotions, and then you reenage in a more calm manner afterwards... you're almost having sex with them mentally, and now they trust you a little more." - Destiny 1:53:17
At one point Lav accuses Destiny(from her stream), of being a hypocrite when calling MrGirl a narcissist. Destiny retorts, that Lav has little people experience, does not know what the word means, and is a very easy person to manipulate. He qualifies that he does not blame Lav for succumbing to MrGirl's tactics, but is still hurt as he confided in Lav much personally. Destiny admits he would've waited longer to address MrGirl's pending manifesto, however Lav "going crazy on stream" prompted him to take action sooner. Destiny considers barring all low-viewer streamers from appearing on his platform. He admits that he expected Lav to handle some of the criticism better, given her significant online presence before their meeting. Destiny eventually concludes he will be doing a content ban on both MrGirl and Lav.
Highlights- Lav's allegations | |
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Destiny Confronts Lav Lune, Insane Lies Uncovered WIP
On March 5, 2023, Lav spoke for the first time about her previous relationship with Destiny since the release of MrGirl's manifesto in November.[37] The video begins with Lav claiming to Stardust that REDACTED and Destiny talked about "sneaking away into rooms to fuck each other" at TwitchCon, to which Stardust counters by stating that REDACTED didn't even attend the event. Lav clarifies that she is merely repeating messages sent to her and MrGirl, and suggests that Destiny's desire to drive with herself to TwitchCon, coupled with their sexual relationship, likely meant he wanted to have sex with her as well. Zonia then tells Lav that Destiny had reviewed logs on his stream that day, briefly mentioning his sexual relationship with Lav and noting it ended before her appearances on his stream. She also points out that TwitchCon happened well after Lav started appearing on Destiny's stream.
Destiny eventually joins the call, seemingly eager to understand why his private sexual details are being discussed on stream. He attempts to ask Lav a question, before being interrupted by her requesting they have at least "thirty seconds of small-talk". The small-talk eventually concludes, and Destiny asks a "random-timeline" question: "When you started to come on, and there was the huge 10-15,000 streams, i'm pretty sure we had been done doing anything sexual for like weeks or months as that point, is that true or false?" Lav responds that they did not, but the fact that Destiny offered to "hang-out" at TwitchCon implied the "door was not closed", and that she's "not presenting anything" when she states this. Destiny then highlights that Lav seems to portray herself as entering his stream's "combat-zone", becoming emotionally distressed in private due to its traumatic nature, while simultaneously suggesting that he was sexting her during this period. Destiny clarifies that the "crazy-combat stuff" on his stream has a two month buffer between when the time when they had any type of a sexual relationship. Destiny reiterates that Lav claims they had an active sexual relationship while she was being "traumatized" by his stream, and that this was not occuring, to which Lav denies ever making this claim and says she retracts such a statement if she ever made it. Destiny moves on to the next claim, and asserts that he ever told Lav she had to perform some sexual act to get on his stream.
At one point, Destiny directly confronts Lav regarding the "MrGirl allegations" and chides her for being MrGirl's star-witness. Lav claims that she merely provided MrGirl with some logs, and then accuses Destiny of being a "weaselly little worm" for deleting them. Destiny asserts that the reason he deleted those logs was to protect the other individuals involved, and that no possible log-leak could hurt him, but would damage the other individuals involved. Destiny continues, and states he would never confirm or deny a sexual relationship, for fear of harming the other individuals involved. Destiny goes on to address Lav's claims of him being the "Harvey Weinstein" of Twitch(aka utilizing sexual coercion with female orbiter), to which the main thrust of her argument is that she once sent Destiny a scantily clad photo and Destiny replied "welcome to the orbiters club". Destiny laughs this off, and chides Lav for thinking this was her "entry into his stream". Destiny then accuses Lav of looking at the most publicly facing sexual relationships Destiny has had, and trying to condemn all of his relationships by that standard, he goes on to accuse Lav of being a habitual liar.
Lav accuses Destiny of talking shit about her for several months, and that she has remained silent. Destiny replies that he only brings MrGirl and Lav up when they bring him up, he then accuses Lav of sexually abusing him by leaking the details of their hookups with an individual whom she knows hates him. Destiny claims to have never spoken about any of the times Lav has talked shit about her fiance , Connor, publicly. Lav shrieks in response, and states that if Destiny wishes to have this conversation, he can never bring up her fiance again. Destiny responds that he will continue to do so, if she insists on shit talking his partner. Destiny continues, and claims Lav's entire online existence is dedicated to threatening to out him as the Harvey Weinstein of twitch. Lav denies this, to which Destiny reiterates that she is the star witness on the article, and that she is the individual who dragged REDACTED to MrGirl as another star witness. The conversation continues, and Destiny claims to have explictily messaged Lav in private to see if she's okay, and she allegedly responded in the affirmative. Lav claims she never thought Destiny was coercive or abusive, and that was MrGirl's perspective. Destiny then pointedly asks Lav what he has done to wrong her, to which Lav responds she can discuss that with Destiny in private. Destiny then claims that they have had this discussion in private, but Lav was already working with a guy at the time who was trying to wright a sexual-assault piece on him. Lav eventually confesses that she felt uncomfortable in their open-ended sexual relationship, and felt like Destiny was letting people(like Aba) shit on her. Destiny then asks Lav how she would respond in a hypothetical scenario where a conversation Lav was interested in discussing was occuring on stream, she wanted to join, and Destiny responded that she could not join because they hooked up, he claims Lav would not respond well. Lav then states she would respond kindly in such a scenario, to which Destiny accuses Lav of lying, and reiterates he in still unsure what he did wrong by her.
The conversation continues, and Lav emphasies that she was a smaller content creator that Destiny should have protected. Destiny counters that Lav routinely bragged about being a larger content creator than him. He then questions why Lav would continuously invite the harassment, and brag about being a "villain". Lav claims that this was merely a cope to deal with public outcry, and claims that her suicidal feelings were not attributed to being on Destiny's stream but her use of benzos. Destiny points to a clip of Lav asserting that the worst times in her life was when she was drafted into a cult at 16, and then November when she was on his stream(during which she never claimed to be medicated). When pressed, she claims she didn't want to bring it up for fear of Destiny's community using it as an excuse. Lav then claims to have watched Destiny ban emotes in his chatroom, and cites this as a reason that he should do some "cleanup" around her. Destiny responds, that he did take actions, and that the criticism she received actually inspired the anti-misogyny arc within his community.
Debate Highlights | |
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a cope to deal with public outcry, and claims that her suicidal feelings were not attributed to being on Destiny's stream but her use of benzos. Destiny points to a clip of Lav asserting that the worst times in her life was when she was drafted into a cult at 16, and then November when she was on his stream.
|
Notable Clips, videos, logs, and tweets WIP
Lav debates on the Playing With Fire channel WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSw_1n-FMyQ
Lav Cries on ChudLogic's stream WIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8HgUa6W-bA
External Links
References
- ↑ Just CHILLIN’, Kick or Keep tonight at 6 EST. (November 27th, 2023). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 28, 2023, from https://youtu.be/UywMih48AYg?t=13513
- ↑ Destiny Moderates MrGirl vs Lav Debate (Gaslighting, Boundaries, Abuse). (August 9, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 6, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcARJDJ4y6k
- ↑ OnlyFans Stars CLASH, Panel GANGS UP on Ex-Model! (August 11, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 4, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soU9GwCv5Cc
- ↑ 2022-08-06|P1 Reacting to ChudLogic panel about sex work and OnlyFans; viewer call-ins. (September 4, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 4, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_l0fADhOZ0&t=2541s
- ↑ “Destiny Has A Big Problem With Me” Ex-Sex Worker CONFRONTS Destiny In Pre-Panel Debate. (August 7, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 4, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqSHS5ncGsQ
- ↑ Destiny, Dan & MrGirl Bully S*x Workers for 4 Hours. (August 9, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 5, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhljHCOOC08
- ↑ PURE CHAOS | Destiny, Lav, Brittany, MrGirl & Dan| Drama Panel. (August 11, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 5, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zH6yO_16lM
- ↑ Dan Sheds Light on LEAKED RECORDING of Lavlune TRASHING Destiny! (Private S*X Info Leaked?). (August 13, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 6, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLK6Z4iRqL4
- ↑ THE E-GIRL EXORCISM - SHOCKING LAVLUNE REVELATIONS. (August 11, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 10, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egyuwjqEXNw
- ↑ Lavlune BACKSTABS Destiny, LIES About STALKER & Gets ATTACKED By Obsessed 4Channer. (August 15, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 6, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4bsurH_FC4
- ↑ 2022-08-14|P1 Destiny was rude to F&F producer; talk w/ Aba about Fresh & Fit, Sneako. (August 19, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 11, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWCDIoM-Ppc
- ↑ 2022-09-11|P2 Talk w/ Lav about sex work, Lav’s beliefs; KaiClips and Lav debate pornography. (September 12, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 11, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3iIvcBoZ3g
- ↑ Destiny Actually Convinces Her To Concede A Trans Debate. (October 5, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 11, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH8iFzeEMa8
- ↑ Destiny Gets Triggered Into A Debate w/ Lav And Zherka ft. Chaeiry. (October 15, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 16, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myPGy1WNvx8
- ↑ Destiny Finally SNAPS, Almost Bans Entire Panel Addressing MrGirl False Allegations. (October 18, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 16, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-irtug0-WYE
- ↑ Destiny Finally Takes Gloves Off, Debate Ends In TEARS. (October 25, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 17, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y6DDtjM3cY
- ↑ Destiny Orbiter Civil War | PRELUDE. (October 26, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 17, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLn43h5JzNA
- ↑ Destiny. (2022). Aba CONFRONTS Destiny, Triggers MELTDOWN 13 Person Debate | CIVIL WAR. In YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX7Y8O4FbzI
- ↑ I Asked My Therapist About Destiny. (October 29, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved October 17, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qqxb_v1GE
- ↑ Sneako And Aba CLASH On Debate Panel Over DJ Akademiks Fresh N Fit Drama. (October 30, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 1, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB2fkZMTvxE
- ↑ Destiny and Dan RECAP MrGirl Bridge Burning and Lav’s Future. (November 1, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 3, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9rkDh3_N3E
- ↑ “DO NOT Make It Personal” - Aba Gets Called Out And Dragged Into Impromptu Debate. (November 6, 2023). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 6, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rAynLV9qKI
- ↑ Destiny SchizVember Call-ins (R*pe Review, Cheating, Lex Fridman and Lav). (November 5, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 8, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzgF4hWILRs
- ↑ Lav And Sneako Go on a date. (November 6, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 9, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwNU0NTczVQ
- ↑ Melina Vents about Lav Lune Drama and Parasocial Destiny Orbiters. (October 28, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 13, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWMgyXtSydo
- ↑ LavLune Fires Back at Destiny’s Wife Melina. (November 6, 2022). Www.youtube.com. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfP2u7qydBI
- ↑ JiDion And Low Tier God Squash Beef In The Middle of A Debate Panel. (November 9, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 14, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slcuGeh99W4
- ↑ https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/ynaf49/i_am_lav_and_i_am_the_voice_of_the_black_community/
- ↑ https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/ynxciz/blav_in_the_sunken_place/
- ↑ Debate Panel Completely Derails Into HEATED Personal Insults ft. Aba. (November 7, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved November 22, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHY0V2QQeKY
- ↑ https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/yp84vl/lav_needs_to_not_be_involved_in_discussions_about/
- ↑ Lavlune CONFRONTED and EXPOSED for Absurd Clout Sharking and Flip-Flopping. (November 8, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved December 4, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M46CiExHMaE
- ↑ Destiny Responds to ChudLogic & Lav Lune Claims. (November 9, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved December 4, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF3Ln1qasFc
- ↑ Destiny Reacts To MrGirl And Lav Crying Together. (November 11, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved December 31, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jliRjf10v3g
- ↑ Destiny Addresses Lav’s Allegations And Exposes MrGirl. (November 11, 2022). www.youtube.com. Retrieved December 6, 2023, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNLNmDQOdYE
- ↑ https://twitter.com/shebie_jeebies/status/1583943682117754880
- ↑ Destiny Confronts Lav Lune, Insane Lies Uncovered. (March 5, 2023). www.youtube.com. Retrieved January 8, 2024, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWhF0jLTsro