Hasan Doğan Piker (born July 25, 1991) is an American political commentator, streamer, and YouTuber. He is best known for his political commentary on the progressive news network The Young Turks and for his Twitch streaming channel, where he discusses pop politics, news headlines, and popular culture. Piker has gained a large following for his outspoken views on progressive politics and social issues.
Hasan’s initial appearance on Destiny’s stream occurred on October 8th, 2018 to discuss an upcoming debate with Charlie Kirk and laude Destiny for his prior debates. Following, this stream, Hasan became a temporary fixture of Destiny’s streams, and a close friend. His initial appearances focused primarily on the burgeoning online-right movement, pundits within that movement, and various economic/political theory. Hasan would frequently join Destiny on podcasts, occasionally stream with him at restaurants and bars, and would regularly appear on Destiny's stream to play games or discuss current controversial issues. As time passed, Hasan's limited debate experience, difficulty contending with criticism from both Destiny and his community, and ideological differences(primarily concerning left-wing thought), eventually put such a strain on their relationship the two streamers cut ties with one another.
Currently, Hasan and Destiny are not on amicable terms. Their mutual dislike has intensified over the years, primarily stemming from personal animosity, ideological differences, and disputes over various contentious issues. The two will regularly criticize the positions/actions of the other, and have fostered communities that mirror their mutual dislike. Despite this animosity and his status as a prominent online political commentator, Hasan has consistently declined to appear on stream with Destiny or engage in debates with him since their initial fallout, citing a general disdain for debates and "debate-perverts".
Hasan Piker was born on July 25, 1991, in New Brunswick, New Jersey. He spent his early years in Turkey before moving back to the United States for college. Piker attended Rutgers University, where he earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in political science and communication.
Career
The Young Turks
Piker began his career as an intern at The Young Turks in 2014. He quickly rose through the ranks, becoming a producer and on-air contributor. Piker gained prominence for his "Bro Tips" show, a dating advice show.
Twitch streaming
In 2018, Piker started streaming on Twitch, where he discusses pop politics, news headlines, and popular culture. His Twitch channel, "Hasanabi," has amassed a large following, making him one of the most popular political streamers on the platform. Piker's streams often feature discussions with journalists and content creators.
The Most Oppressed Group - Pre-debate Debate with Hasan Piker
On October 9th, 2018 Destiny engaged in a "pre-debate debate" with Hasan. This discussion was held in preparation for a future politicon appearance Hasan would have with Charlie Kirk. [1] Hasan begins the conversation cordially, praising Destiny for being "awesome," citing his "excellent" content, and expressing that he "really likes what he's about." From there, the two engage in a lighthearted conversation discussing topics such as Neoliberalism, Destiny's political and gaming background,the current political climate, and Hasan's upcoming debate with Charlie Kirk. Other topics discussed include, Destiny and Hasan's political perspectives, prior debate experiences with conservatives, and a disagreement Hasan had with Destiny regarding the succesfullness of Donald Trump as a president.
Discussion Highlights
Destiny's Political Perspective 5:03 Hasan inquires about what Destiny's political perspective is, Destiny responds that he aligns pretty closely with anyone on the left with regards to social issues. However with regards to economic policy, Destiny states he's a big fan of market forces and capitalism, and likely more closely aligns with conservatives. He tempers this by saying he's okay with a healthy amount of government intervention, to which he proclaims himself a social-democrat/neoliberal. Hasan takes issue with this, and warns Destiny against calling himself a neoliberal, citing the ideology as being a "full subscription to deny that capitalism has like any sort of faults." Destiny disagrees with this framing, and the two discuss what the true definition of Neoliberalism is. Eventually Hasan concludes that Neoliberalism is simply "anybody who looks at socialism with disdain", or wants to create hurdles for issues such as medicare for all.
Hasan's Political Perspective 13:55 Hasan asserts that he is "more to the left than the majority of TYT", and that the organization is a good "gateway" to leftist politics. Hasan recommends Destiny's audience check out Chapo Trap House to look for an adequate critique of Neoliberalism. Destiny admits he is hesitant to recommend the podcast, due to their tendency to "relentlessly shit on liberals". Hasan then explains that the criticism these liberals receive is due in part to their tendency to "hold up oligarchs" and create a false narrative that "everything is fine", and that comprise can be reached with Republicans.
Hasan's Facebook group 20:26 Hasan discusses a Facebook group he runs, wherein several people of varying political beliefs are members and are unified by their shared enjoyment of his streams. He goes on to discuss how the Stalinists and Neoliberals of the group tend to fight with one another, and confesses how he more closely aligns with the Stalinists who claim that "everything the United States does is bad".
Prior debate experiences with conservatives 48:13 Destiny and Hasan discuss their prior debates/experiences with conservatives. The two mention how the perceived victim complex many modern day conservatives maintain, makes them very frustrating interlocutors. At one point during this discussion, Hasan briefly mentions that he's "not on board" with an authoritarian state assertion of power despite the fact that he calls himself a socialist.
Destiny and Hasan discuss Sam Harris, Hasan shares his appreciation for Destiny 1:11:37 Destiny and Hasan discuss Sam Harris, and American imperialism. Destiny expresses his uncomfortability with some of Sam's views, as he tends to "come out swinging very hard for Judeo-Christian values". Hasan echoes this sentiment, and adds that Sam tends to "otherize" Islam as being an inherently violent religion but never acknowledges the consequences of American Imperialism. Destiny agrees, and pokes fun at the double-standards which seem to be prevalent in America society, comparing the reaction to an Islamic nation going to war for Allah with the response if someone like Donald Trump declared the Bible as the most important book ever written, or Bush saying he "prays before making any decision".
1:23:52 Hasan remarks that Destiny is "doing a really important job" by debating people on the right.
Was Trump a successful president? 1:27:51 Hasan discusses a debate Destiny had, in which he doesn't fully agree with a position Destiny posited regarding the success of Donald Trump as a president. Hasan claims Trump has been incredibly successful as a Republican president because his underlying positions are just "regular fucking conservative principles". Hasan elaborates that his positions are all the "modern GOP positions" but his rhetoric is just different, and is just more appealing to his base voters. He goes on to point to things such as the Republican Tax plan, the "destruction" of the EPA", and the "destruction" of the financial protection bureau. He concludes that this is all "regular republican shit" that Trump was able to accomplish in an authoritarian fashion. Destiny responds that Trump has caused a very deep division within the Republican party, citing instances such as Trumples mocking Mccain for being a war hero making it very difficult for them to see eye-to-eye with other Republicans. Destiny then discuss how Trump fans and supporters "fucking hate" establishment Republicans, citing the tendency of these groups to trash moderate Republicans just as hard as certain left leaning groups(i.e. calling them Rhinos). Destiny concludes that he's unsure what kind of damage will happen to the party once Trump is gone, pointing to how a candidate like Rubio could have difficulty pandering to this new-extreme base.
Hasan's critique of Charlie Kirk 2:17:40 At one point while the pair are watching a PragerU video together, Charlie Kirk asserts "capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system, and that socialism always leads to poverty." Hasan pauses the video and exclaims "why would anyone make that argument, that argument is bananas." He then expresses confusion as to how Kirk can label these colleges as liberal. Hasan concludes that Kirk just wants college campuses to be more racist.
11:08 Destiny provides some nuance on his perspective with regards to the ACA failing, in that the US did not get a significant reduction in the cost of healthcare.
13:31 Destiny states he's a consequentialist, looking to increase the standards of living for most people through policy.
15:48 Hasan recommends Destiny's audience check out Chapo Trap House to look for an adequate critique of Neoliberalism.
22:04 Hasan asserts that America's existence has been devastating for the world in very meaningful ways.
25:29 Destiny and Hasan discuss their experiences with highschool and college math. The two then discuss masculinity in US media, and metal gear solid.
30:28 Destiny laments the tendency of conservatives to not engage with issues such as Education and Healthcare in the United States.
33:51 Hasan asks Destiny what the best way to have a productive conversation is. Destiny confesses very few of the conversations on his channel are productive.
35:47 Destiny discusses an edgy position he holds: "You should be able to say whatever word you want, at any point in time, and it shouldn't have to have racist or derogatory connotations to it. But if I use certain words there's going to be some people that watch me, who will feel like i'm reinforcing some negative/racist belief they have... All satire has been totally fucking destroyed".
38:03 Destiny remarks how he'd always speak out in solidarity for content creators(even those he disagrees with) that were banned off certain platforms, and how some of these same content creators celebrated his own ban off certain platforms. The two then discuss their grievances with "classical liberals".
45:03 Destiny discusses how if conservatives weren't racist, they'd be able to lock in much more voters due to the regressive values many traditional immigrants hold.
48:13 Destiny and Hasan discuss Anthony Brian Logan, and other debates with conservatives Destiny has had.
54:36 Hasan derides the "capitalist vultures over at ABC" for firing Roseanne Barr. Hasan goes on to discuss how she toted the line between acceptable and unacceptable racism. The two then discuss the perceived "oppression" of conservatives.
1:06:52 Hasan and Destiny discuss the racism of certain immigrant demographics.
1:21:47 Hasan asks Destiny: "What is something that has changed in your political perspective throughout time". Destiny responds that his goal has always been to find the "most correct position" which contorts with his base values as much as possible. Destiny explains that as a result of this, he tends to lean more left.
1:23:52 Hasan remarks that Destiny is "doing a really important job" by debating people on the right.
1:25:58 Destiny discusses how he plans to vote and engage in more electoral politics, despite having voter apathy and "hating democracy". Hasan applauds Destiny for this.
1:28:23 Hasan discusses a disagreement he has with Destiny regarding the successfulness of Donald Trump as a president.
1:36:55 Destiny discusses his frustrations with debating centrists. Hasan then questions why Destiny is so hesitant to name himself as "someone on the left", to which Destiny responds he's not "a leftie, communist, tankie, or socialist... I just feel most of my positions are incredibly reasonable, and I could bring most people without much effort... I just have these positions that make me look like i'm so extremely on the left... when debating these people"
1:41:42 Hasan questions Destiny about his libertarian past.
1:49:36 Hasan struggles to find a Dave Rubin quote to share with Destiny.
1:55:49 Hasan and Destiny take a pee break, then discuss Hasan's upcoming politicon debate.
2:03:14 Hasan discusses Charlie Kirk's professor watch list, then begin watching a PragerU video.
2:17:40 In the video, Charlie Kirk asserts "capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system, and that socialism always leads to poverty."Hasan exclaims "why would anyone make that argument, that argument is bananas." He then expresses confusion as to how Kirk can label these colleges as liberal.
On October 20, 2018 Destiny reacted to a Politicon panel featuring featuring Hasan and Charlie Kirk.[2] The primary focus of the panel was: "Whether young people should be progressives, conservatives, or perhaps something else". Destiny was mildly impressed by certain aspects of Hasan's debate performance. He appreciated Hasan's ability to challenge and critique various points, particularly in the context of discussing systemic issues and the limitations of free-market solutions. He also recognized the difficulty Hasan faced in addressing complex topics such as healthcare, education, and wealth distribution, in the face of a practiced "Gish-Galloper" such as Charlie Kirk. He did however offer a few critiques:
Destiny suggested that Hasan could benefit from incorporating more 'scummy tactics' used in live debates, implying a need for more strategic interjections and rebuttals tailored to the format, especially facing an individual such as Charlie Kirk.
Destiny indicated that Hasan could improve in how he handles the framing set by his opponents, particularly in redirecting or countering their narratives more effectively.
Discussion Highlights
Highlights from Destiny's reaction include:
6:18 Highlighting a critical talking point missed by Hasan, Destiny counters an argument put forth by Charlie Kirk that "it's a good thing more individuals are off food-stamps". Destiny maintains that such an indicator is a poor barometer for the success of a nation, and that other indicators such as level of education, access to food stamps, access to healthcare, housing, and luxury goods are far better indicators of success.
7:43 Hasan agrees with Charlie Kirk that "we should reject socialism". Destiny pauses the video, and argues that Hasan agreeing with Kirk in this instance makes him look very weak.
27:37 When discussing the socialization of medical systems, Kirk mentions Lasik eye surgery and argues that the existence of insurance makes healthcare far more expensive. Realizing Kirk is regurgitating talking points from a video Destiny himself had once fallen victim to during his more right-leaning years, Destiny pulls up the video and proceeds to mock Kirk for not understanding the "elasticity" of certain services.
45:38 Charlie Kirk remarks that the most poor and destitute cities are owned by Democrats. Destiny pauses the video, laughs mockingly, and states that Kirk has every "fucking meme talking point". Shortly after resuming the video, Destiny pauses it once more to point out that the gish-gallop is destroying Hasan, and he cannot allow Kirk to ramble on.
1:05:01 After Kirk interrupts Hasan and asks for a moment to speak, Destiny remarks that he feels like Kirk has spoken quite a bit more than Hasan during this panel.
1:14:08 After being pushed by Kirk, Hasan shares that he only makes $60,000 a year. Hasan's uncle, Cenk Uygur, proceeds to shout at Kirk from the crowd.
Politicon 2018 - Post-debate Debate with Hasan Piker.
On October 21, 2018 Destiny and Hasan had a three and a half hour long discussion regarding Hasan's recent debate experience at Politicon. [3] The conversation begins with Destiny explaining to Hasan that he did not necessarily dislike the points he attempted to convey to Kirk, but was critical of his attempts to get those points across. Hasan agreed with this sentiment, and pointed to Kirk's tactics of outright lying, Gish Galloping, moving the goalposts, and crafting messages for "applause breaks" as being very frustrating to deal with. Destiny sympathised with this, agreeing that the debate tactics employed by Kirk are very hard to deal with in real time, particularly in a live format. From there, the two discussed tactics Hasan could have employed better in the debate, their grievances with modern day conservatives, and the best methods in reaching out to a "broader" audience.
Destiny's Advice
Dealing with Gish Galloping 10:19 : Destiny tells Hasan the best way to counter a debate opponent Gish Galloping, particularly in a live format, is to pose them questions at the end which every member of the audience would be able to identify with. Destiny goes on to provide the example of Bernie Sanders hammering home the same three talking points (1% getting richer, jobs suck, lack of affordability of healthcare). Destiny then pointedly suggests that Hasan could have posed questions like this on the back end of every one of Kirk's monologues, and that Kirk would come out looking worse for it.
Holding Opponents Accountable 16:56: Destiny encourages Hasan to firmly challenge Kirk's controversial statements, like those suggesting Democratic policies lead to violence in Chicago.
Refraining from Communist-like rhetoric 47:44: Hasan references a communist individual in his community, who advised him to point his arguments more towards a criticism of capitalism. Destiny tells Hasan to never listen to individuals like this. Destiny goes on to advise Hasan to take on more "nazi-rhetoric" in that he should present his ideas as "positive-things" for the benefit of the country. He compares this against communist rhetoric that tends to include phrases such as "eat the rich".
Handling leading questions in a debate 1:42:1: Destiny informs Hasan that "whenever someone asks you a question, the reason why they're doing that is because they know what answer you're going to give, so they've already got the response prepared. Anytime you're in a debate with somebody, if they ask you a question that seems very obvious...you have to know that if you answer... they're ready to go into it."
Neoliberalism 2:19:27: Hasan and Destiny discuss Neoliberalism. Hasan states Neoliberalism has a more "hawkish" perspective, and fails to acknowledge the failures of free market. Destiny cautions Hasan against this perspective, and jokingly suggests he already has seven Neoliberals already typing him up emails suggesting the contrary. Destiny states he has no strong stance one way or the other, but points out there are Neoliberals that seem okay and some that seem quite extreme. Hasan then jokingly suggests that "Neoliberals love getting owned", and cautions Destiny against calling himself one.
Using Free-Market arguments against Conservatives 2:47:07: Destiny provides Hasan a "silver-fucking-bullet" to conservative hypocrisy. He points to how Conservatives tend to state the free-market will solve everything, then how these same individuals will complain when they're banned from social media platforms.
The stock market as an indicator for prosperity 2:06:13: At one point, Hasan attempts to provide Destiny with a talking point regarding the stock market being a poor indicator for prosperity. Destiny, acknowledges this, and finishes Hasan's point stating: "oh yeah, because the average American doesn't hold a lot of securities." Destiny goes on to point to a debate with Jacob Wohl, where he made this exact argument.
Having counterexamples on hand 3:07:53: Destiny recommends Hasan have a list of "capitalist countries that are fucking up" to counter Kirk's examples of socialist countries performing poorly. Hasan then expresses his disdain for this type of strategy citing it as being intellectually dishonest.
As the conversation concludes, Hasan thanks Destiny and admits that although his audience initially viewed Destiny with skepticism, believing him to be a social democrat, they have now fallen in love with him. Hasan then raids Destiny's channel, and offers to help "tag-team" someone in a debate should Destiny ever wish.
Discussion Timestamps
2:58 Hasan informs Destiny that he watches his debates all the time and welcomes any criticism from him , regardless how harsh it may be.
10:19 Destiny advises Hasan on how to counter a Gish Gallop.
16:56 Destiny suggests to Hasan that he should have held Kirk's "feet to the fire" in certain instances where he said some "real dumb shit". Destiny cited instances such as Kirk suggesting Democrat policies were causing black people to be killed in Chicago.
20:14 Lamenting how Conservatives mock Socialists for suggesting true socialism has never existed, Hasan suggests that these individuals do the same with regards to capitalism. Destiny takes issue with this, and suggests that he would actually "push back here really hard, because I am a liberal". Destiny goes on to argue that when he has to argue in favor of liberalism/capitalism, it's very hard to argue as he must defend his very real/flaw system against an ideal. Destiny then provides Hasan various strategies he could utilize to better advocate his proposed socialist system.
31:51 In response to an argument from Kirk that Hasan should give up 95% of his salary if he's a socialist, Hasan admits he has no clue how to respond. Destiny provides Hasan some argumentative suggestions, one of which highlights the great personal harm one would incur should they give up the majority of their income to the IRS, with little benefit to society.
37:08 Hasan criticizes the tendency of the left to be quick to label individuals as Nazis. The conversation continues and Destiny later remarks that Hasan is "an intelligent guy" and suggests that he should engage in more debates with individuals he encounters online to sharpen his debate skills.
43:01 Hasan asks Destiny what specific points he should be working on in order to improve his debate skills. Destiny advises Hasan that the issue was not so much his points, but his rhetoric.
47:44 Hasan references a communist individual in his community, who advised him to point his arguments more towards a criticism of capitalism. Destiny tells Hasan to never listen to individuals like this, and Hasan jokingly agrees. Destiny goes on to advise Hasan to take on more "nazi-rhetoric" in that he should present his ideas as "positive-things" for the benefit of the country. He compares this against communist rhetoric that tends to include phrases such as "eat the rich".
1:03:19 Hasan claims: "in the 66 minute debate, Charlie interrupted me 76 times".
1:14:52 Destiny suggests Hasan counters Kirk's comparisons of the United States to Cuba with "why are we comparing ourselves to nations like Cuba".
1:42:1 Destiny informs Hasan that "whenever someone asks you a question, the reason why they're doing that is because they know what answer you're going to give, so they've already got the response prepared. Anytime you're in a debate with somebody, if they ask you a question that seems very obvious...you have to know that if you answer... they're ready to go into it."
1:56:25 Destiny points to Hasan how Kirk tends to end his points on very strong statements.
1:57:20 Hasan claims socialism is not his position, and that his counters to Kirk's points are rooted in Social Democracy.
2:11:34 Hasan exclaims that he'd like to kill Charlie Kirk.
2:18:24 Destiny informs Hasan how schools receive funding.
2:21:33 Hasan and Destiny mock the conservative argument of "just move".
2:41:18 Destiny advises Hasan how to best approach arguments against lobbying.
2:44:24 Destiny restates an argument regarding federal non-discretionary funding Hasan attempted to make to Kirk. Hasan acknowledges that he made the same point but Destiny stated it more eloquently.
2:47:07 Destiny provides Hasan a free-market argument to use against conservatives.
2:49:28 Hasan informs Destiny "this argument is also for you... I never hear you mention this" with regards to the stock market not being a good indicator for success. Destiny, does in fact acknowledge this, and once again succinctly finishes Hasan's point by stating "oh yeah, because the average American doesn't hold a lot of securities."
3:01:34 Hasan claims capitalism does not have an answer to artificial intelligence and automation.
3:07:53 Destiny provides a recommendation to Hasan relating to counterexamples.
3:11:51 After exclaiming that Kirk is a "fucking pussy', Hasan apologizes to any female viewers and makes a note on his stream of "no ableism in chat".
3:18:39 Destiny provides Hasan the talking point "freedom means nothing without access".
Hasan’s Richard Lewis Debate - Post-debate Debate with Hasan Piker.
On November 2, 2018 Hasan engaged in a debate with esports journalist Richard Lewis regarding hot-button topics at the time. Topics included the Mainstream Media, Donald Trump, Shifting Demographics, and Obama Era Deportations. [5] The call concluded with Lewis describing Hasan as a "diet Destiny".
On November 6, 2018 Hasan and Destiny reacted to a vod of the debate together. [6] At the onset of the stream, the two experience several delays due to technical difficulties primarily attributed to synchronizing the audio of both the vods they are watching, low-volume, and Destiny hearing an echo from Hasan's stream(Hasan did not have headphones at the time). Destiny eventually decides that Hasan should simply watch his stream while he reacts to the vod, Hasan points out that Destiny's stream has a five-second delay, to which Destiny responds Hasan can just "scream" if he wants the video paused. Destiny immediately retracts this idea, and settles on just screensharing the video through discord(only after Destiny berates the chatter who suggested this alternative). From this point, Destiny's stream is left with the muffled audio of Hasan's debate with Richard Lewis, which the two react to for the remainder of the call.
Throughout the video, Destiny levies several critiques of Lewis at both a personal and argumentative level. Destiny calls "spineless" for his behavior following the JonTron Debate, citing Lewis' claim that he had made Jontron appear racist through debate-tactics. Destiny also ridicules Lewis for being under the control of esports broadcaster, Thorin, describing him as being on a “little leash” held by the broadcaster whenever he forms an opinion. On an argumentative level, Destiny critiques Lewis's tendency to gish gallop Hasan at several points during the debate, disputes Lewis's views on American Exceptionalism in journalism, and criticizes the way figures like Lewis struggle when faced with facts which stand in direct opposition to their claims. While watching the video, Hasan observes that Lewis often claims their conversation is "not a debate" and uses this assertion to dodge pressure or clarification on issues. Hasan suggests that Lewis's likely only joined his stream for the sake of gaining clout from his stream, a point with which Destiny agrees. Destiny and Hasan went on to critique many of Lewis' defenses for Donald Trump, primarily relating to the hypocrisy of Conservatives when defending Republican figures and attacking Democratic ones, and the tendency of centrists like Lewis to use liberalism as a "convenient suit" to push any argument they may be in favor of.
Discussion Highlights
Technical Delays 0:00: Destiny and Hasan try to synchronize the vod on their streams, leading to several minutes of technical delays. Eventually, Destiny's stream captures only a faint recording of Hasan's debate with Richard Lewis, to which they react for the remainder of the call.
16:30: As the audio was being played through Hasan's speakers, whenever Hasan speaks, the audio from the video is muted. A frustrated Destiny decides to pause the video and fruitlessly work on a solution with Hasan to settle this issue. No solution is found, and the two continue with the video.
Destiny's personal grievances with Richard Lewis 6:22: Destiny pauses the video and derides Lewis' tendency to justify some positions with the claim that he has "a lot of multicultural friends". Hasan then questions Destiny's past relationship with Lewis, stating he thought they were "best-friends" at one point. Destiny informs Hasan that they were friends, but not particularly close. He then discusses Lewis' perceived "spinelessness", and points to his silence during the JonTron Debate and accusation that Destiny was making Jontron appear racist through debate tactics. Destiny concludes that Lewis is on a "little-leash" held by an esports broadcaster named Thorin.
1:08:39: Destiny discusses how Lewis' feud with the r/Leagueoflegends mods after a subreddit ban, and his threats of doxing the team, resulted in a reddit-wide ban on his account.
Hasan describes the events leading up to his debate with Richard Lewis 14:55: Hasan claims that Lewis only came onto his stream because he saw an attractive guy on the main page of twitch "shitting on his video". Hasan goes on to accuse Lewis of thinking he could score an easy dunk on an "attractive looking dumb-guy". Hasan then points out that Lewis referred to him as "diet Destiny", to which Hasan responded "bitch I debated Ann Coulter on television last week."
Richard Lewis handwaves Donald Trump's attack on the free press 28:57: Lewis states "Trump makes journalists rhetoric a little bit laughable, there are definitely... governments that do have journalists killed... like Saudi Arabia... being an American journalist is a very privileged position." Destiny pauses the video at this point, remarks that Lewis is "handwaving" the president attacking the free press, and notes that the world press freedom index ranks the United States at 45. Destiny then notes that he is unsure where Lewis is getting the idea that the United States has the "freest fucking press", and is surprised to hear such American exceptionalism ideas coming from a "britbonger".
The inability of conservatives to contend with facts 39:43: Destiny claims conservatives aren't interested in the fact of a matter and more interested in telling a story. He goes on to assert once a conservative is held to task on a particular issue(i.e. through the presentation of relevant facts), they get "insanely ass pained". Destiny then points to Lewis' behavior throughout the debate as evidence of this, citing his evident cognitive dissonance when presented with facts, and resorting to accusations of "debate-tactics".
Richard Lewis debates the power of President Trump's rhetoric. 48:50: Destiny pauses the video after Lewis contends that the individual making a particular statement has no bearing on the authority it holds(with regards to a statement made by President Trump). Destiny pauses the video and exclaims that Lewis is "so fucking stupid", and that there's a difference between the "president of the United States saying something, versus some fucking random dipshit on Twitter". Destiny then concludes that these statements should be par for the course for someone that used to write for Breitbart.
Hasan's critiques of the British 52:13: Hasan claims he was trying to be as nice as possible to Lewis because he's British, and British people have a way of dismantling arguments.
54:31: After mockingly presenting an argument presented by Lewis while mimicking his accent, Hasan proclaims "that's literally every fucking British dipshit, every British central dipshit", to which Destiny warns Hasan against disparaging all British people, and to focus on this particular commentator.
Lewis' framing of the debate 58:25: Hasan expresses frustration with Lewis' tendency throughout the call to claim their conversation is "not a debate" and claims that Lewis utilized this assertion to dodge pressure or clarification on issues. He later asks Destiny what he should do in a scenario like this, questioning whether he should kick Lewis out of the call at this point. Destiny responds that Hasan could "bat him around" a couple more topics, but empathises with Hasan's frustrations citing the many similar conversations he has had with right leaning pundits.
Lewis' claims that certain attacks on the president did not receive appropriate media attention 1:05:56: After fact checking a claim presented by Lewis that Donald Trump Jr received Ricin in the mail, Destiny eventually concludes that the package was in fact sent to the Pentagon and never reached the White House.
1:11:14: Lewis claims Bush received more media attention for receiving Ricin in the mail than Donald Trump. Destiny and Hasan contend that Bush actually received Anthrax, and that this occurred after 9/11 when a large Anthrax scare was occuring. The two proceed to laugh at Lewis for attempting to compare this incident to two Pentagon officials receiving Ricin.
1:13:14 Destiny and Hasan deliberate about the president's son receiving cornstarch after a claim presented by Lewis(which he appeared to be conflating with a separate event).
The hypocrisy of Conservatives, Lewis defends Trump's attacks on Judge Curiel 1:31:51: Destiny compares the hypocrisy of conservatives who criticize Democratic political figures like Obama, but defend Donald Trump. Hasan echoes this sentiment and describes the level of apologia by conservatives for Donald Trump as "mind-boggling". He goes on to say that centrists tend to play a "fuckload of mental gymnastics" to justify actions taken by Donald Trump, and then as soon as somebody on the "liberal" side "sneezes wrong" they are quick to point out their actions.
1:33:4 Destiny is incredulous after Lewis defends Trump attacks on a judge due to his Mexican heritage, lewis stating "he didn't do it because he was Mexican, he did it because he was from a Mexican immigrant family".[7] Destiny then exclaims "What the fuck is the difference between these two fucking statements? He didn't do it because he was black he did it because his mom and dad were black, what the fuck kind of dumb fucking statement is this? That's so fucking stupid. Oh my god." Destiny later points out that the case Judge Curiel was sitting on had nothing to do with the wall and was related to an issue regarding Trump University.
Richard Lewis and liberalism 2:00:15 Destiny states many individuals who are centrist and claim to be liberals, are in fact lying. He goes on to point out that these individuals use liberalism as a "tool for an end, and don't actually give a fuck about liberal values". He concludes that Lewis does not "give a fuck" about any of the values he presents, and just wears them as "convenient suits" to win an argument he's in favor of.
Discussion timestamps
2:52: After some technical issues Destiny decides that Hasan should just react to the debate-vod through his stream, despite the five-second delay. This idea is eventually thrown out, and the two settle on watching the debate-vod through discord screen share.
5:38: Destiny and Hasan discuss the "broadening" of hate speech laws in Scotland.
6:22: Destiny mocks Lewis' argumentative approach and character. The two then discuss Destiny's prior relationship with Lewis, and the fallout of a debate Destiny had with Jontron.
10:21: Destiny fact checks a claim from Lewis regarding the nazi uniforms in Inglourious Basterds. He then informs Hasan that he was gish galloped by Lewis at this point in the debate.
13:46: Destiny discusses what a free-speech absolutists' perspective on fascist/nazi-iconography being banned is.
14:55: Hasan discusses the events leading up to his debate with Lewis.
23:19: Destiny pauses the video and provides Hasan some advice: "A lot of times people complaints will be evidence of the positions they have in life, or the privileges that they have in life." Destiny then provides the example of someone only caring for freedom of speech because they were banned from twitter.
28:17: Destiny mocks Lewis for defending Donald Trump's attack on the press.
33:17: Destiny points to another instance of Lewis handwaving Trump's faults and subsequently placing blame on Democrats. Lewis later discusses an alleged package of Ricin sent to one of Donald Trump's children.
39:43: Destiny discusses the inability of conservatives to debate when presented with facts.
1:11:14: Destiny and Hasan contend with Lewis' claim that Bush received Ricin in the mail.
1:15:06: After Lewis cites an incident involving Maxine Waters wherein he suggests Waters incited violence. Destiny fact checks the quote presented and finds that Waters did not in fact do so.
1:31:51: Destiny compares the hypocrisy of conservatives who criticize Democratic political figures like Obama, but defend Donald Trump. Hasan echoes this sentiment.
1:34:28 Destiny is incredulous after Lewis defends Trump attacks on a judge due to his Mexican heritage.
1:43:18 Hasan claims Donald Trump's orders to shoot anyone throwing a rock at border patrol guardsmen or placing barbed wire on the fence could be considered war crimes.
1:44:07 Destiny pauses the video and derides Lewis after after he warns Hasan about the dangers of "overly-liberal/politically correct" individuals taking over college campuses. Destiny remarks that this is an unlikely possibility, and Hasan agrees.
1:47:38 Hasan introduces Izzie, a trans military veteran who joined the call with Lewis.
1:56:12 Lewis remarks "if diversity is our strength why do we surrender our freedom of speech to tech monopolies." Destiny and Hasan are unsure what to make of that.
2:00:15 Destiny discusses liberalism and Richard Lewis.
2:09:21 Destiny and Hasan fast forward to the part of the video where Lewis claims Hasan is a "diet Destiny."
Destiny arives at Hasan's apartment, plays with Fish(Hasan's dog), and proceeds to help troubleshoot some technical issues with Hasan.[8] At one point, prolific DGG chatter Felklmao requsts to join the call, and Destiny warns Hasan against allowing him in for fear of getting gnomed. Felklmao does eventually join the call and proceeds to have a friendly conversation with Hasan, no gnomes involved.
Talk with Hasan - McDonnald's employee kicking teenagers out
At one point during the stream, Hasan mentions that he saw Destiny's reaction(and subsequent debate with MrMouton) to a group of teens who were allegedly threatened by a gunman in a McDonalds being removed from the premises by a manager. Destiny, being on the side of the manager in this situation, had some disagreement with Hasan over this event. Destiny's primary contention being that the manager was in the right not to believe "teenagers walking around like a bunch of dumbasses", and that a McDonalds does not need to serve as a fortress against some "ar-15 shots". Hasan counters, and suggests that the manager should have exhibited "just a little care" for her fellow human beings. The two engage in a lighthearted debate for some time. [9]
"What if it was Nathan(at the McDonalds shouting for help)?" - Hasan
"I don't care, fuck him dude... If Nathan is around there bullying some fucking dude.. Nathan what the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you screaming some dumbass shit?" -Destiny
2:14 Destiny runs through the possible decisions that could be made by the manager in an attempt to convey how poor the alternative decisions the manager could have made were.
5:24 Destiny proposes that a gun may be an adequate response to several teenagers approaching an individual. Implying that it may not have been a disproportionate response.
10:27 Hasan proposes a hypothetical from chat: "what if it was Nathan?" To which Destiny responds: "I don't care, fuck him dude."
13:24 Destiny once again details the alternative scenarios.
Talk with Hasan - Doctor kicked out of airplane
Destiny and Hasan debate an incident involving a Doctor's refusal to leave his seat when directed because he needed to see patients the following day. Destiny maintains that the doctor should have booked a first-class flight if he was so concerned with the wellbeing of his patients. Hasan criticises this suggestion, highlighting the uncertainty of first-class availability and violations of consumer protection. [10]
1:20 Hasan questions Destiny's decision to take the side of the airline.
2:22 Destiny discusses the tendency of flights to be overbooked, and the responsibility of the doctor to ensure he wasn't booted from the flight by purchasing an economy plus ticket.
4:31 Destiny discusses the alternative to airlines being unable to kick passengers off flights.
5:58 Hasan laughs as Destiny responds to a chatter's critique of his argument.
9:58 Hasan discovers the airline reached a settlement with the doctor.
Talk with Hasan - Disciplining employee - School janitor case
During the stream Destiny and Hasan engaged in yet another light hearted debate, this time involving a janitor being fired from a middle school for leaving early. Destiny, was of the opinion that the janitor should not have left the school early, while Hasan felt the firing was unjustified.Eventually, Hasan agrees with Destiny that the principal had provided a compelling reason for the janitor to be present at the school, he caveats that the principal is still being an “egomaniacal tyrant and a horrible boss” in this scenario.
[11]
Talk with Hasan - Disciplining employee - School janitor case
2:55 Hasan and Destiny begin reacting to the school janitor firing video.
4:59 Hasan claims the principal seems to think she has ownership of the janitor. Destiny disagrees, and asserts that it is within the principal's rights to ensure her employees are working their scheduled hours.
5:41 Hasan mocks Destiny for defending someone speaking in the third person.
6:33 Hasan partially agrees with Destiny that the person has provided a compelling reason for the janitor to be present at the school, he caveats that the principal is still being an egomaniacal tyrant and a horrible boss.
10:41 Destiny identifies that the janitor's inability to respond to feedback from his boss in a respectful manner is a "major red flag".
Domestic abuse - MrDeadMoth hits wife ft. MrMouton, Hasan, WhiteNervosa
Domestic abuse - MrDeadMoth hits wife ft. MrMouton, Hasan, WhiteNervosaDestiny reviewing an image of injuries sustained by MrDeadMoth.
On December 11, 2018 Destiny ,while driving his Nitrous Blue Ford Focus RS, has a heated conversation with his chat regarding a domestic abuse situation involving fortnite streamer MrDeadMoth and his wife. During the conversation, Destiny asserts parents should never fight in front of their kids, maintains throwing items at your partner(as the wife did) still constitutes physical abuse, and repeatedly berates a chatter who suggested otherwise. [12][13]
On December 12, 2018 Destiny reviewed the domestic abuse case from his home-office, and was eventually joined by several other friends of the stream.[14] Individuals in the video such as MrMouton, Hasan and WhiteNervosa had slightly varied focuses on the situation, but all came to the conclusion that MrDeadMoth bore the brunt of the blame and should not have physically retaliated against his wife's physical actions towards him.Destiny took the contrary position, stating that while MrDeadMoth physical response should not be excused, the wife's persistent approach, escalation, and starting of the physical altercation, should be viewed as provoking or exacerbating the situation. Destiny goes on to point out that the wife repeatedly engaged and re-engaged in confrontational behavior, which included throwing objects and verbal provocation, while MrDeadMoth attempted multiple times to deescalate the situation.
"I'm sorry.. anybody who defends the women here is a literal subhuman piece of shit... I don't even know how you can even begin to think that her actions here are remotely okay. She instigates every physical violence here, she starts every single time.. And is the guy right for slapping her? No he's not, but every single time he backs off, she keeps coming back, not to talk... but to be physically abusive over and over again... People are linking pictures in chat... of the guy.. this is aparantly pictures he has taken of abuse. I don't even need these, because it doesn't even matter... this video speaks for itself." - Destiny 25:56
Individual Positions
Destiny setting several reminders for himself to ban subreddit users.
Destiny's position 1:26 Shortly after starting his stream, Destiny begins reacting to MrDeadMoth's altercation with his wife. Upon watching the video in its entirety, Destiny goes on to describe the double standards at play when a women physically abuses their partner versus when a man does so. He describes how when a women physically abuses a man it is generally viewed as funny and deserved, while when a man physically abuses a women it is horrible. Destiny goes on to point to several instances of abuser apologia related to this scenario, such as claiming the women in the video was pregnant/hormonal or that the man didn't respond quick enough to a dinner invitation. 16:47 Destiny notes MrDeadMoth attempted to deescalate the situation multiple times, and was met with increasingly more violence in his attempts. 21:23 Destiny goes on to state that individuals who are physically abusive, will not disengage from a situation by merely being told to "go away".
10:0829:33 Destiny claims that he typically never speaks on this issue(women on man domestic abuse), due to thinking it was common sense to understand how bad such situations are. He highlights how this situation has seemed dispel that thought, as he has witnessed many alleged feminists applauding MrDeadMoth's harassment by his wife. He goes on to describe how he typically doesn't speak on this issue, because he finds Men's-rights activists online to be quite abhorrent. Following this, Destiny describes the double standard at play when people find it amusing for a women to abuse a man
14:42 Destiny asserts that all domestic abuse is bad, and that no physical altercations should ever occur in a relationship. He goes on to claim that the fact that this situation is occurring in front of a child makes the situation even more tragic. Destiny then states that the women appears to be consistently instigating the situation, while the man attempting to play the game is doing little wrong. He concludes that if the gender roles in this scenario were swapped, the positions of many outspoken critics towards MrDeadMoth would be reversed.
28:02 Destiny describes the "reasonable answer" one should give when experiencing abuse, which is calling the authorities. He caveats this by stating: "All three times that I have called the police(in similar domestic abuse scenarios), they have blamed me for what happened. So when Rachel would get physically violent with me, three times... one time when my mom was even visiting. I called the cops three times, women police showed up, and they said it was my fault I was driving her to that."
MrMouton's position 42:14 MrMouton eventually joins the call, and gives his position. He claims to agree with most of Destiny's position, but caveats MrDeadMoth should not have hit her(a point which Destiny agrees with). MrMouton then states anyone who believes MrDeadMoth disseminated child porn or did nothing wrong should be executed on the spot. He goes on to assert that MrDeadMoth should have left the house, instead of getting physical with his partner.
Destiny's contention with MrMouton was primarily centered on whether or not the slap by MrDeadMoth was justified. Destiny maintains that if one were to get physical with their partner as a result of them instigating physical abuse, a slap is the most optimal form of retaliation. Destiny goes on to state that individuals put into stressful situations do not always act optimally, and people are placing an unfair amount of responsibility on MrDeadMoth in this situation.
50:11 MrMouton claims MrDeadMoth "punched the shit" out of his wife. Destiny responds he cannot possibly know this occured, and he does not believe MrDeadMoth ever punched her. MrMouton would go on to state that the biggest issue was that MrDeadmoth did so in front of his child, to which Destiny responds the fault is on the wife for escalating the situation in from of their child.
Hasan's position 56:08 Hasan, after claiming to have personal experience on the issue at hand, describes his position. He argues that size is a crucial important factor to consider during these domestic disputes. Hasan goes on to state that the onus is on the Male partner to refrain from resorting to physical violence in most instances of domestic violence, given the physical advantage most men enjoy. He caveats this position, stating instances wherein the women utilizes a weapon(i.e. a blunt object), would warrant physical retaliation by the male.
56:57 When questioned by Destiny how one should not counter being physically assaulted by their partner with more violence, Hasan describes curling up into a ball when being attacked by his partner. Destiny disagrees and argues "fuck that shit".
58:38 Hasan puts forth that MrDeadMoth should have shut off the game, and de-escalated the situation. Destiny counters that the situation is inherently ridiculous, stating: "she is using physical violence and intimidation to get her way, to force him to have a conversation he may not want to have, in order to deescalate a situation. I'm almost more in favor saying the guy is more in the right to fight her, than to fucking sit here and entertain the conversation..."
1:00:24 Hasan claims to cover domestic abuse situations in the same framework as police brutality, in that the male has much more force in most situations. Destiny counters that police sign up and have training for such situations, while the average male partner does not.
1:02:37 Hasan argues that the best possible outcome for the scenario would be if MrDeadMoth turned off his pc and attempted to confront his wife. Destiny disagrees, and puts forth that the best outcome would be for him to leave the room and call the police.
1:18:05 Hasan argues that he would never hit someone much smaller than him, especially a pregnant women. Destiny pokes fun at Hasan for this line of thought, and argues that MrDeadMoth's wife being pregnant places more blame on her for instigating and escalating such a situation.
Whitenervosa's position 1:59:04 Destiny calls out WhiteNervosa for stating MrDeadMoth's wife is receiving more hatred than MrDeadmoth himself. Destiny goes on to state, he already knows what her take is, and is already anticipating killing himself upon hearing it live.
2:05:27 WhiteNervosa eventually joins the call, and asks Destiny why he believes the women is more at fault than the man. Destiny reasserts his position, stating the women instigated the violence and consistently escalated it. WhiteNervosa questions how MrDeadMoth deescalated the situation, and how his wife reengaged in physical violence. Destiny responds "he went back to his chair and put his headphones on", and "after he hits her for the first time, he sits back down, and she comes back and reengages, and re-escalates in the physical violence again." WhiteNervosa then asks "what does she do", to which Destiny describes how MrDeadMoth's wife "throw shit at him, threaten to break shit, looks like she's about to hit him." Following this line of questioning, WhiteNervosa accuses Destiny of being charitable to MrDeadMoth, and not his wife stating he has no idea of knowing whether the wife was going to attempt to hit him. Destiny responds the wife is in fact threatening to harm MrDeadMoth, pointing out that she threw items, broke items, and MrDeadMoth raised his hands in an attempt to block a blow at one point.
WhiteNervosa asks Destiny if he believes MrDeadMoth escalated force needlessly after having items thrown at him. Destiny responds he does not know, to which WhiteNervosa further inquires if it matters what items are being thrown at MrDeadMoth, and provides the example of a birthday balloon. Destiny argues it likely does not matter, and informs WhiteNervosa this take is "hilariously baby brained, I can't tell if you're ironically making it or just trying to win the argument." WhiteNervosa then attempts to argue "you wouldn't say cardboard is the equivalent of a lamp right?" Destiny responds "I don't know... throwing folded up cardboard at a person fucking hurts, go get somebody into a garage and fucking try it." WhiteNervosa attempts to cut Destiny off at this point to disagree, to which Destiny responds :
From hereon out, the two deliberate on whether MrDeadMoth received ample enough provocation to retaliate against his wife. Destiny becomes seemingly more infuriated with the conversation as it proceeds, part in fact due to WhiteNervosa's tendency to place the majority of the blame on MrDeadMoth. This tension in this call eventually builds up to a point where Destiny throws his hands to his head(shortly after being killed in his call of duty match) and states WhiteNervosa is "fucking retarded" and ends his stream.
Discussion timestamps
0:00 Destiny starts his stream, and requests a chatter to link him the original video involving MrDeadMoth. A chatter then asks Destiny if he saw Hasan's stream, to which Destiny replies Hasan likely gave a take centering on physical proportionality between a man and a woman in domestic disputes.
1:26 Destiny begins watching MrDeadMoth's altercation with his wife.
7:40 Destiny plays a video where strangers have different reactions to a man physically encroaching upon a women and vice versa.
9:55 A chatter mocks Destiny for suggesting that cardboard being thrown at another individual could constitute physical abuse, to which Destiny replies with banishing said chatter from his community.
11:23 After a chatter claims "nobody beat the shit out of anybody in this video", Destiny considers permanently banning them, but instead addresses their point. Destiny then proceeds to ban a chatter who suggested he strawmanned the previous chatter.
13:43 Destiny remarks that the experiment run in a video he is reacting to(involving a man abusing a women in public and a women abusing a man in the same scenario), would result in more strangers assisting the women than the man.
16:47 Destiny begins analyzing the video, and notes when MrDeadMoth's wife begins to throw items at him.
18:57 MrDeathMoth slapping his wife can be heard in the background, Destiny pauses and breaks down the situation.
25:56 Destiny remarks that anyone who defends the women in this situation is a subhuman piece of shit.
29:25 Destiny once again details his disappointment with having to speak on men-rights issues he thought would be "givens" within his community.
31:12 Destiny states he was going to ban several individuals off he subreddit, but it was difficult to do so on mobile. He then opens up his subreddit to review reddit threads.
31:25 Destiny calls out Kelly Jean for comments attempting to defend the women, i.e. "The women was pregnant". Destiny then goes through several reddit comments he made to remind himself to ban certain subreddit users.
42:14MrMouton joins the call, and gives his position.
44:23 MrMouton states that the wife's actions were annoying, to which Destiny retorts her actions were abusive not annoying.
54:29 A chatter asks Destiny "why is it okay to downplay the violence?" Destiny responds "Because I give a lot of credit to people who are in a defensive position, versus an offensive scenario."
56:18 Hasan details his personal experience with physical abuse.
57:32 Destiny proposes a murder-rape hypothetical to Hasan.
59:03 Destiny counters the argument that MrDeadMoth should have shut off the game and de-escalated the situation.
1:00:24 Hasan claims to cover domestic abuse situations in the same framework as police brutality. Destiny disagrees with this framing.
1:06:16 Hasan puts forth that the reason most men lose legal cases involving domestic violence, is because men are physically superior.
1:10:32 Destiny lists off the poor behavior committed by MrDeadmMoth's wife.
1:14:24 Destiny asks Hasan what the "agro timer" on pregnant women is. The trio argue on the justifiability of physically retaliating against a pregnant women.
1:28:04 Hasan states the pregnant women was "hysterical" before the slap occured.
1:29:19 Destiny contends he cannot listen to many of Hasan's arguments as it appears he is making several excuses for MrDeadMoth's wife.
1:34:00 Destiny accidently molotovs himself and MrMouton in their game while Hasan defends MrDeadMoth's wife.
1:345:48 Destiny and Hasan debate the damaging ability of cardboard.
1:38:29 Destiny and Hasan debate the damage one could do against somebody "curled up in a ball."
On December 17, 2018, Destiny and Hasan discuss PewDiePie's political ignorance, and how the same ignorance appears to be prevalent throughout much of online discourse. [15] The video begins with Hasan discussing how PewDiePie, near the end of a recent video, had inadvertently promoted a "Nazi youtube channel" by the name of E;R. Despite PewDiePie editing out the promotion of E;R from the prior video and issuing an apology, Hasan goes on to claim that PewDiePie's apology was "fake" as he included the same promotion twice in the apology video coupled with promoting pieces of E;R's content in earlier videos. Hasan would go on to state that these actions make it seem like PewDiePie may be a crypto-fascist. Destiny responds that he is hesitant to label PewDiePie as such, given that he may truly just be ignorant when it comes to interpreting harmful political messaging, claiming the same ignorance is rife throughout "gamer-bro" communities .
Eventually, the conversation veers off into a discussion on Venezuela and Socialism, and Hasan exits the call after discussing the issue for an hour. At this point, Destiny is alone and decides to watch PewDiePie's biggest OOPSIE, a video wherein PewDiePie recounts the promotion of E;R. During the video, PewDiePie plays a sound-bite from a prior video where he promotes E;R's death note review, and mocks anyone for suggesting this is nazi propaganda. Destiny watches thirty minutes of the review, questions how E;R manages to do such poor critiques of media for a living, and refuses to watch any more of "this low-iq shit". Destiny then requests that his chat direct him to some of E;R's "nazi shit", and is eventually told to skip to the thirty seven minute mark of the video where a Heather Heyer reference is made. From this point Destiny reacts to several nazi references made in E;R's videos including a Hitler speech played over dramatic music, and a montage of wealthy/influential Jewish individuals played over Orpheus in the Underworld concluding with a message of "securing an existence and future for human children". From these videos, Destiny eventually concludes that E;R is "maybe a little bit of a Nazi". Destiny eventually resumes PewDiePie's video and Hasan joins the call to get Destiny's position on the situation. Destiny informs Hasan that E;R is almost certainly attempting to red pill viewers on Nazi propaganda, and that he still has to finish PewDiePie's response video to draw a conclusion on him. After finishing PewDiePie's response video, Destiny concludes that PewDiePie is not a nazi but is likely just dumb politically.
Discussion Highlights
Hasan summarizes the PewDiePie debacle 0:10 Hasan discusses how PewDiePie, near the end of a recent video, had inadvertently promoted a "Nazi youtube channel" by the name of E;R. Hasan goes on to inform Destiny that he stumbled upon this finding, after one of E;R's "fashy fans" had tried to red pill Hasan's audience with the JQ. Hasan reports that after combing through some of E;R's videos, he found many racist/antisemitic jokes sprinkled throughout seemingly innocuous media reviews(i.e. full Hitler speeches and images of Obama with the Star of David). Hasan elaborates that the most damning piece of information is a Gab account run by E;R, wherein he brags about Red Pilling people on alt-right ideology and crypto-fascism. Despite PewDiePie editing out the promotion of E;R from the prior video and issuing an apology, Hasan goes on to claim that PewDiePie's apology was "fake" as he included the same promotion twice in the apology video.
Destiny's perspective 9:39 When questioned by Hasan what his perspective is, Destiny informs him that he is unsure what to make of the situation. Destiny goes on to elaborate that he would like to have a stronger opinion, however the ignorance of "gamer-bro people" makes it plausible that they may truly be "just that dumb" when it comes to interpreting harmful political messaging.
Destiny reacts to "PewDiePie's biggest OOPSIE", concludes E;R is likely a Nazi 11:40 Destiny begins reacting to "PewDiePie's biggest OOPSIE", a video wherein PewDiePie lays out a defense for himself against the accusation that he shepherded an audience of fourteen year olds to Nazi propaganda. PewDiePie plays a sound-bite from a prior video where he promotes E;R's death note review, and mocks anyone for suggesting this is nazi propaganda. Destiny watches thirty minutes of the review, and heavily critiques it. Destiny then asks his chat for the "nazi-shit", to which a chatter directs Destiny to the 37 minute mark of the video where a Heather Heyer reference is made. From this point Destiny reacts to several nazi references made in E;R's videos. Destiny eventually finishes PewDiePie's response video, and concludes that PewDiePie is not a nazi but is likely just dumb politically.
Discussion timestamps
0:10 Hasan enters the call, greets Destiny, and gives a summary of drama revolving around PewDiePie's promotion of an alleged Nazi youtuber.
3:20 Hasan discusses the discovery of E;R's Gab account.
4:36 Hasan speaks with Destiny regarding PewDiePie's retraction of the E;R promotion, and his "fake apology".
8:44 Destiny informs Hasan that he's unsure if PewDiePie should be labled as a Nazi or not, and he may just be genuinely ignorant when it comes to "this stuff".
9:32 Hasan claims that PewDiePie has been aware of E;R for several months.
10:59 Hasan claims there are many PewDiePie supports in Destiny's subreddit.
11:40 The conversation gets sidetracked on venezuela. Destiny is alone at this point in the video and watches PewDiePie's biggest OOPSIE, a video where PewDiePie recounts the the promotion of E;R.
13:54 Destiny asks his chat for E;R'S "nazi shit". A chatter then directs Destiny to skip to 37 minutes in E;R'S death note review.
Talking with a Venezuelan about Venezuela ft. Hasanabi Yiazmat accusing Destiny of letting Hasan get away with misinformation regarding Venezuela's economic collapse.A comment chiding Hasan for eating while debating Yiazmat on Venezuela's economic collapse and food scarcity.
On the same day Destiny and Hasan discussed PewDiePie, the pair had a conversation regarding whether the economic collapse of Venezuela was a product of socialism.
[16] The conversation was initially spurred on after a chatter, Yiazmat, asserted that Destiny had let Hasan claim the country's economic collapse had nothing to do with Socialism.[17] Destiny responds that he had not seen any evidence linking socialism to Venezuela's collapse, and that it was more likely attributed to corruption prevalent throughout the government. Hasan also adds that the Venezuelan economy is heavily privatized.
Shortly after Destiny and Hasan's initial remarks, Yiazmat requests to join the call, and is eventually admitted into the discord room. Yiazmat, appearing to be quite emotional, makes his hatred for the Venezuelan government clear and goes on to reassert his position that Hasan is incorrect regarding his claim that "socialism has nothing to do with what happened" to the country. Yiazmat then points to several of the country's industries becoming nationalized, and the institution of various price controls. Destiny posits that Venezuela has been engaging in this nationalizing for quite some time, to which Yiazmat counters that the country had not engaged in such practices before Chávez. Yiazmat goes on to cite the "real socialism" undergone in Venezuela(aka seizing the means of production) as the primary cause for the country's strife, and criticizes Hasan previous attempts at comparing Scandinavian countries to Venezuela.
The conversation veers off into a semantic discussion on what constitutes "true socialism". Throughout the conversation, Yiazmat maintains that the nationalization of several key industries, and instituting of various price controls, is more than enough evidence of socialism occuring. While Hasan disagrees, asserting the problem was due in part to poor leadership, and imperialism from countries like the United States. Hasan would routinely attempt to point to other countries which have engaged in similar activities as Venezuela, and have not experienced economic collapse. Destiny also maintains that the collapse of the country was not a result of socialism, however he primarily asserts price-controls and poor economic policy were the primary cause for the country's downward spiral. Despite initially debating with Yiazmat, Destiny acted as a moderator for the two other individuals in the call, ensuring certain claims(i.e. causes of food shortages in Venezuela) were fact checked in real time and no fallacious arguments were made by either side.
Hasan(voice muffled with food): "Okay... printing money is something the United States does almost all the fucking time...and the reason why they did it, is so that poor people also had access to food."
Destiny: "Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait... chill okay... so your currency is backed by the strength of your economy... when the United States prints currency to cover its own debt, that printing is not done as a crisis play in order to save our economy, the United States does not print money in crisis to save our economy. Even the 2007 downturn was not like an extreme crisis where we had to save ourselves, in the same way that in Venezuela, there are people standing in line for like hours to buy fucking toilet paper... When Venezuela was printing money, they were doing it to literally bail themselves out of a fucked situation, but they did not have the same strength of their economy , so their bond ratings went to shit as a result of this bad monetary policy. Whereas in the US, we can print money, and that's fine, it's backed by our economy, Venezuela did not have the(same) economy." 14:10
Following the initial dispute, the conversation becomes more personal after Destiny inquires what Yiazmat's day-to-day life is like. Yiazmat becomes quite emotional during this segment, as he describes his parents' life-savings being stripped from them by the government. Following Yiazmat's emotionally charged retelling of his family history, Hasan is seemingly more hesitant to press Yiazmat on the issue any further, and the conversation eventually concludes.
Debate Highlights
Reading Yiazmat's comment, initial remarks from Destiny and Hasan 0:05 Upon reading Yazmat's comment that he had let Hasan "get away" with misinformation on his stream, Destiny requests that the chatter link him "something that's not from Breitbart, that's credible, we can go over it". Destiny goes on to state that he has done some research into Venezuela, and that the only link to economic problems and socialism within the country is it's socialized oil industry. Destiny concludes that the problems are more likely attributed to the corruption prevalent throughout the country's government. Hasan adds "ask him what percentage he thinks the private industry in Venezuela is... they nationalized their extraction industry... you know what other country nationalized their extraction industry? Norway. That dude is speaking out of his ass."
Yiazmat joins the call 3:57 Yiazmat joins the call, asserts his hatred for the government of his country, and criticizes Hasan for claiming "socialism has nothing to do with what happened". Yiazmat goes on to state that despite Hasan's claim that the majority of industries in Venezuela are privatized, the government was in the process of nationalizing several industries and instituting various price controls. Destiny counters, claiming that Venezuela had been engaging in this nationalizing for quite some time, to which Yiazmat responds that they had not done so before Chávez. Yiazmat goes on to criticize Hasan for comparing European governments, which have free education and healthcare, to Venezuela's which does not. Yiazmat then asserts that Venezuela's "real-socialism," specifically the takeover of the means of production, is the main cause of the country's strife. He cites the nationalization of various industries and the government's control over the quantities sold by certain corporations as evidence.
Upon retrieving the Wikipedia page for Hugo Chávez, Destiny remarks the Venezuelan oil industry had been nationalized since the late 1970s, and that Chávez came in 1999. Yiazmat replies that he is unsure, but asserts Chávez still replaced several key workers in these industries with less competent workers. Hasan then adds that while all this is true, it has nothing to do with socialism. Yiazmat maintains that the nationalization of several industries is evidence of socialism occuring.
Food shortages 9:12 Destiny pulls up the wikipedia page on Shortages in Venezuela, and asks Yiazmat what spurred them on. Yiazmat replies that as a result of key industries working in Venezuela at a loss, several of these companies moved to other countries where profit could be had. Hasan claims that these reforms(i.e. currency mismanagement) occurred under Maduro, and Yiazmat replies that Hasan is mistaken.
Printing money 14:10 Hasan claims "printing money is something the United States does all the time, and the reason why they did it is so that poor people could also have access to food." Destiny cuts Hasan off from this point, asserting that the United States' printing of money is not comparable to Venezuela's in this instance. Destiny points out that when the United States prints money, it is not done as a "crisis-play" to save its economy.
Socialism and Venezuela's collapse 20:41 Destiny claims the Venezuelan crisis does not appear to be a result of socialism, but is centered around Price controls. Yiazmat expresses his confusion, stating he is unsure how this would not fall under the socialism umbrella if Chávez was nationalizing industries and instituting price controls. Destiny , sensing this confusion, gives a brief overview of the economic forces/ideologies at play in the country. "It's capitalism because you have actual owners, that own the actual firms.. and you got laborers that work there. Now it's my understanding, all of these firms could be owned by the actual workers, but they could still compete with each other in price. Just because you have firms owned by the workers, doesn't mean you need price controls." Destiny would go on to assert that the problem in Venezuela is not a result of capitalism or socialism, but poor economic policy.
27:45 Yiazmat claims that some social programs instituted by the Venezuelan government wherein voters were given money and utilities like laundry machines contributed to the country's downfall. Hasan disagrees with this framing, and places the blame once more on poor management of a country. Destiny agrees with Hasan, and pushes back against Yiazmat's perspective as well.
Price Controls
Throughout the debate, Destiny maintains that price controls were the primary cause for the downward spiral in Venezuela:
11:39 Destiny chimes in after reading four paragraphs from the Shortages in Venezuela wiki, and asserts Chávez was implementing severe price controls in an effort to increase affordability of certain products, and companies ended up leaving the country as a result. Destiny continues, and remarks that as these companies leave and supplies begin to dwindle, citizens start to panic, and Chávez attempted to control the situation by nationalizing industries and manipulating the Venezuelan currency. Yiazmat becomes quite emotional at this retelling, and begins crying.
25:38 Destiny asserts if a country chooses to utilize price controls, they must be set for a "very intelligent reason". He points to United States policies like minimum wage as a reasonable use with no disastrous outcomes, given that laborers in the country cannot effectively bargain against capital owners for wages. Destiny would go on to maintain that even if Venezuela were to stay capitalistic, the setting of price controls would still have resulted in the country's economic collapse.
Debate timestamps
0:05 Destiny reads Yiazmat's message, sparking the conversation.
0:42 Hasan claims Yiazmat is speaking out of his ass.
1:23 Hasan discusses the "Republican-Despacito" phrase he coined(AKA whataboutism engaged by individuals on the right).
1:42 Hasan remarks the Venezuelan government should not be absolved of guilt, and that they are certainly bad. Shortly after Yiazmat requests to join the call.
3:15 Seeing how long it takes Yiazmat to join the call, Hasan pokes fun at Venezuelan internet.
14:10 Hasan compares Venezuela printing money to the US doing the same.
15:25 Hasan claims the US tried to back a coup in Venezuela, and places blame on imperialism for the country's economic collapse.
16:13 Destiny redirects the conversation towards a discussion on price-controls.
18:59 Hasan maintains he is not an apologist fo Maduro.
20:48 Destiny reasserts the cause of the country's collapse was not socialism.
26:12 Destiny discusses the downward spiral as a result of price controls in Venezuela.
27:45 Yiazmat discusses some Venezuelan social programs wherein some voters were given money/utilities to buy voters. Hasan disagrees with the framing that this is a result of socialism or the country's downfall, and the two debate for some time.
31:03 Destiny empathizes with Yiazmat's frustration in defending capitalist systems. Destiny then asks what the day to day life is like in Venezuela.
32:50 Hasan asks Yiazmat how wealthy he is compared to other citizens of Venezuela.
34:37 Yiazmat becomes emotional once more, and describes the poverty his parents suddenly faced after "working all their life" just for the government to take all their savings.
37:39 Destiny pokes fun at Hasan following Yiazmat's emotionally charged claim: "Come on Hasan, just end this dude..."
40:03 Destiny maintains that even if Venezuela were to stay capitalist, setting the same price controls would still result in economic collapse.
42:10 Yiazmat and Hasan discuss free market principles relative to Venezuela.
44:04 Hasan asks Yiazmat what he thinks is the "way out" for Venezuela.
46:05 The group discusses voter rates in Venezuela vs the United States.
50:17 Yiazmat details how several individuals are leaving the country, and that he has no friends left near him.
Hasan joins DGG chat
Hasan's first DGG chat logs.
On December 24th, 2018 Hasan Joined DGG chat under the username "HasanAbi".[18]
Destiny IRL streams with with Andy Milonakis, Hasan, and Pokimane
STOP JĘRKIŃG ME OFFA drunk destiny revealing he has no weapons in his sweatshirt.
Some time around January 25, 2019, Destiny IRL streamed with Hasan and Andy Milonakis at a restaurant.[20] During the stream, Destiny became inebriated to the point where restaurant staff were forced to cut him off.
Highlights from Destiny's drunk escapades include:
4:26 Shortly after proclaiming himself the "master of manipulating Gyoza", Destiny proceeds to drop a dumpling on the floor. Destiny then picks the dumpling off the floor and eats it, to Hasan's disdain.
4:52 The restaurant manager walks in to greet Andy and the group. After shaking the manager's hand, Destiny decides to inform the manager: "I drank a little bit too much but i'm not causing trouble okay? I'm not hitting anybody or anything." Hasan questions why Destiny would even say this, to which Destiny recounts his casino experience dealing with drunk people. The manager then requests that Andy and Hasan ensure Destiny does not drive home, to which Destiny empathetically responds he would never want the owner to be held liable for his drunk driving. Following this interaction, Hasan concludes Destiny won that debate.
5:49 After staring at his phone confusedly, Destiny asks Andy if he paid for his portion of the meal asserting he does not want to "leech" off of him. The waitress then stops by, informing the table that Destiny is being cut off from any further alcoholic beverages.
6:10 Destiny lifts up his sweatshirt to reveal he has no guns on his person. Hasan shouts at Destiny for even implying he would be armed, Destiny responds "what if he looks up my license plate".
6:58 Destiny states he has empirical data on the best joke ever.
"So all of a sudden, a friend is out hunting with another friend, and they call 9-1-1. And he says: My friend is on the ground as he's in distress. And the 9-1-1 caller says: Okay, well what's wrong? And the guy says: I think he's dead. And then the first thing she says is: You need to make sure that he's dead first. And there's a long silence and then a gunshot. And the guy is like: okay now what?" -The empirically funniest joke ever according to a very drunk Destiny.
7:33 After Destiny attempts to grab Hasan's chest once more, Hasan tells him to stop. Destiny then asks why Hasan is being homophobic.
8:31 Destiny gives Andy $200, and tells him to leave the rest as a tip.
9:07 After Hasan denies a request to take a group photo with some individuals, Destiny questions why. Hasan responds it's because they did not want Destiny in the photo, and he wanted to stand in solidarity with his friend.
Hasan, Destiny, and Hbomberguy discuss politics, Brexit, and Darksydephil
There's something you value more than democracy... ft. Hasan Piker & H.Bomberguy
On January 1, 2019 Destiny and Hasan discussed politics, Antisemitism, Brexit, and DarksydePhil with British youtuber Hbomberguy. [21] During their brief discussion on personal politics, all three parties eventually came to the conclusion that they are in favor of incremental changes towards a better society. The trio then discuss the veracity of the anti-semitism accusations levied towards British political leader labor Jeremy Corbyn, while the three agree antisemitism is present in British politics, they ultimately conclude that the accusations were superfluous. The topic of controversial British politicians, eventually leads to a discussion on Britain's upcoming withdrawal from the European Union(AKA Brexit). The primary contention in this topic being whether a second referendum on Brexit would be justified. Destiny put forth the argument that constantly redoing a vote until a particular outcome is achieved sets a poor precedent, while Hbomberguy argued that the vote won with a slim margin several years ago and voters were not quite as informed on the issue as they were presently(hence the need for another vote). Despite this initial disagreement, both parties end up agreeing important votes such as Brexit should never be held to a referendum.
Discussion Highlights
Personal Politics 10:26 After Hbomberguy states he has seen many of Destiny's debates, but has never seen him "sit down" and discuss what his opinions are, Destiny and Hbomberguy discuss their personal political stances. Destiny begins by asking if Hbomberguy is a "big lefty", in the sense that he believes capitalism is inherently unsavable. Hbomberguy responds that he considers himself to be an "incrementalist", stating that small changes to make the current system work better. Destiny mirrors this sentiment, and concludes that he and Hbomberguy are fairly well aligned politically. Hasan concludes that they are all on the same side politically, particularly when it comes to US politics.
Jeremy Corbyn and antisemitism 17:48 After Hbomberguy jokingly refers to Jeremy Corbyn as the next Jesus for having "JC" in his name and being crucified(metaphorically) by Jews, the trio discusses the antisemitism accusations levied towards the British political leader. Destiny begins by confessing he has read very little into the topic, and asks Hbomberguy how valid the accusations were. Hbomberguy responds that the accusations held little water, and that a misinterpretation of a quote from Corbyn regarding bankers and a financial crisis ultimately spearheaded the claims. Hasan remarks that despite the baselessness of th accusations, there still exists plenty of antisemitism throughout British politics.
Brexit and repealing the Brexit Referendum 21:24 Destiny jokingly asks Hbomberguy if he's ready for a "no-deal" Brexit. Hbomberguy expresses his shock that the deal is still going through and that an alternative deal has not been sought out. He goes on to state that he plans to move to Wales. Destiny sympathizes with Hbomberguy's despair, and remarks how difficult the situation is, citing the immense difficulting in "undoing" a referendum. Hbomberguy agrees, but states a "ton of people have changed their minds", and argues that a second referendum may steer the country back on course. Destiny disagrees with this point, and argues that doing over votes until a particular result is achieved sets a poor precedent. Hbomberguy then puts forth the argument that the individuals in favor of brexit, seem to only want it to go through because a "slim-margin" of citizens voted for it several years ago, which seems to vary from the logic at the time that the exit from the EU was "good".
Despite the initial disagreement, both Destiny and Hbomberguy agree the Brexit vote should never have been held up to a referendum to begin with. Following this, Hasan argues that Destiny has become "even more of a tankie" than he has, due to the authoritarian perspective he just presented. Destiny responds that in some cases democracy is a poor idea, providing the example of citizens potentially voting on monetary policy. Hasan laudes Hbomberguy for creating such a good analogy, and Destiny argues that it is in fact a horrible analogy. Destiny explains that Hbomberguy is essentially arguing "no referendum matters because you can always do another one."
Discussion timestamps
0:00 Hasan informs Destiny that he has Hbomberguy "on the line", and thinks it would be an interesting opportunity for Destiny to meet with him. Destiny confesses he has exchanged messages with Hbomberguy on Skype in the past, but never had anything to discuss with him.
0:53 After Hbomberguy joins the call, Hasan recounts a New Years party full of "clouted" youtubers.
4:48 Hasan asks to play Call of Duty with Destiny, Destiny agrees.
5:45 Hasan discusses Hbomberguy's recent video on Flat Earth, and expresses his surprise that it didn't devolve into antisemitism like most conspiracy theories.
10:26 Destiny and Hbomberguy discuss their personal politics.
14:06 Destiny details his grievances with most "capitalists" such as Charlie Kirk, don't understand even basic economic theory regarding markets.
17:48 The trio discusses Jeremy Corbyn and antisemitism.
On January 7, 2019 Hasan and Destiny debated the ethicacy of reporting on breaking news and the roles of journalists and commentators in shaping public perception. [22] This was among one of the first major on-stream disagreements the two would have, and was met with an overwhelmingly negative response from youtube comments(primarily criticising Hasan).[23]
The conversation begins with a discussion on right-wing political commentator NuanceBro, and a video he had made in response to Hasan's coverage over the death of Jazmine Barnes being a potential hate crime. Hasan goes on to describe how the eventual revelation that the shooting was in fact gang-related(and not a hate crime), resulted in his channel being brigaded by individuals accusing Hasan of "race-baiting", individuals criticizing him for not waiting for more information to come out, and the eventual release of NuanceBro's video. Hasan informs Destiny that he felt this criticism was unfair, arguing that he was merely parroting what major news sources at the time were stating. Destiny took issue with Hasan's perspective, and argued Hasan was irresponsible with his covering of the shooting, asserting he should have waited for all information relating to the event to be released.
"Here's my position on this...There's literally absolutely never ever ever ever...This is why I hate breaking news... There's never any value that comes out of covering these types of things, before all the information is released... Knowing about it a day or two or whatever earlier, it never gives you anything better, and there's so much potential harm that can come from doing it early, that's why I just try to avoid making any comment" - Destiny 4:32
Destiny and Hasan's positions
The shooting
On December 30, 2018, 7-year-old Jazmine Barnes was shot in a Houston, Texas parking lot while sitting in a car with her family. The initial description of the suspect was a white male in his 40s, which led to widespread speculation over the shooting being potentially racially motivated. The racial aspect of the case was heavily emphasized in media coverage, with public figures and activists rallying for justice under the belief that Jazmine was targeted because of her race.
However, the case took a significant turn when the actual suspects, Eric Black Jr. and Larry Woodruffe, both African American males, were arrested following a tip-off. They were charged with capital murder, and it emerged that the shooting was a case of mistaken identity; the suspects had believed they were attacking individuals from a different vehicle due to an ongoing gang-feud. This revelation led to a controversy over the initial media coverage and public discourse, which had strongly focused on the racial angle based on the first description provided by witnesses.[24] Hasan was among the individuals who took part in this media coverage.
Hasan's position 0:44 Hasan recounts the shooting, stating four eyewitnesses gave their testimony about a white individual shooting Jazmine. Police officers disseminated this information to the public. He continues, explaining that the police officers had not ruled out hate crimes as a motive. According to Hasan, when police departments issue statements like this, they more often than not identify the incidents as hate crimes. Using this early information, Hasan tells Destiny that he created a video detailing all the early coverage. He informed his audience that the police had not dismissed the possibility of a hate crime as the motive and decided to educate his audience about hate crimes in America.
2:09 Shortly after releasing his video, Hasan describes enduring brigading when new information about the shooting surfaces, identifying the shooters as black, which rules out the hate-crime motive. People accuse him of "race-baiting" and criticize him for not waiting for "all the facts to come out." Hasan defends himself by arguing that he was working with the information available just as any news organization would. Hasan goes on to state the criticism he receives is unjustified as he issued a correction and deleted the video of his coverage.
8:40 Hasan argues that if "the information wasn't solid" he would not have worked with it. Destiny rejects this characterization, arguing Hasan "did not work towards anything to get to the hate-crime". Hasan counters, stating he did not assert anything in the situation was a hate-crime, and merely decided to speak on the issue at the time. Destiny tells Hasan to chill, and states he's doing what NuanceBro does when he decides to discuss African American crime statistics.
11:57 Hasan states he has never been in a situation where the police officers and all eyewitness testimony was incorrect, and argues once more he was justified in covering the video.
25:33 Hasan asserts he cannot wait for all the facts to come out, as it would be at a detriment to his job. Destiny disagrees, and posits a hypothetical to Hasan:
"Let's say you report the facts about some story, the facts are all true... let's say that from those facts, you could draw three or four likely scenarios that could have happened. Do you think it would be responsible to talk about any of those scenarios without having further facts to confirm them... You're speculating based off incomplete facts on a narrative you can't support." - Destiny
Hasan responds once more that his job is to "opine", and he was justified in covering the story with the facts he had.
28:40 Destiny describes a hypothetical scenario where an arab was accused of a terrorist attack, and right-wing pundits decided to discuss arab extremism as a whole. Hasan agrees the pundits would be justified.
38:55 Hasan states his job isn't to report the news uncritically, and flow a narrative around it. Destiny, not paying attention to what Hasan was saying, is incredulous by a bold poker move linked to him by a chatter.
Destiny's position 3:06 Destiny disagrees with Hasan's perspective, arguing that even talking about the situation potentially being a hate-crime is irresponsible, given that so little information was available. Destiny then points to the example of performing similar coverage if a bombing had occurred and the police had not ruled out an Arab person. Hasan then argues that this analogy does not sufficiently encompass the situation, pointing to the various witnesses identifying the shooter(shortly after, a chatter points out that witness-id is rarely accurate).
4:31,8:29,10:46, 12:34, 15:50 Destiny routinely asserts that there was no reason for Hasan to cover this event before any more information had come out, and there was no value to be gained from doing so.
18:45 Destiny argues Hasan could have covered the immediate news regarding the shooting without framing a narrative, and should not have decided to leverage the situation to discuss hate-crimes.
When is the right time to cover news stories? 14:57 Hasan asks Destiny what the right time to cover news stories is. Destiny argues that he hates breaking news, and the dangers around breaking news are too great to risk covering it. Destiny goes on to assert that narratives can be formed very early on when a story is covered too soon, and retractions are woefully ineffective in reframing said narrative.
35:28 Hasan states he has a very limited window to get a message across, and must cover facts pertaining to breaking news immediately.
Discussion timestamps
0:02 Hasan asks Destiny about Trainwreckstv potentially getting NuanceBro on his podcast. Destiny responds negatively, implying the conversation would be boring. Hasan then points to NuanceBro's recent video on the death of Jazmine Barnes which was made in response to Hasan's coverage.
3:09 Destiny gives his perspective on the situation, stating he likely disagrees with Hasan. The two discuss for some time.
4:17 A chatter argues that witness ID is known to be notoriously inaccurate.
4:43 Destiny argues that there is no value in covering breaking news, and that one should wait for all the information to be released.
6:26 Hasan states he issued a correction and took the video down.
8:24 Destiny reiterates there was no value in Hasan covering the topic before more information released, and that he should have waited before covering the story.
9:33 Destiny recounts the events from Hasan's perspective, and informs Hasan why he's in the wrong and should have waited for more information to come out.
10:45 Destiny asserts it does not matter if Hasan reported all the facts correctly, he still should have waited for more information to come out.
12:34 Destiny tells Hasan he should have waited for more information to come out.
13:55 Destiny criticizes Hasan for "reaching" with his arguments.
14:57 Hasan asks Destiny what the right time to cover news stories is. Destiny responds that he hates breaking news, and finds it dangerous to report on.
17:51 Destiny reiterates that one could leverage all of Hasan's arguments to justify the potential culprit of a bombing to be Arab.
18:45 Destiny asserts Hasan should have covered the story without framing a narrative.
20:25 Hasan admits he was at fault for saying there is a likelihood of the shooting being a hate crime. He then laments "everyone in chat being an ethics in journalism major."
23:16 Hasan yells at chat, Destiny eventually posits a hypothetical to Hasan.
28:40 Destiny provides another hypothetical, Hasan's answer remains the same.
35:28 Hasan describes the limited window he has to cover events as they occur.
37:51 A chatter compares Destiny's chatroom to North Korea.
38:37 Hasan states he's trying to figure out what he should do differently in the future. Destiny tells him to just report the facts.
Notable Clips, Videos, and Tweets and Controversies WIP
Controversies
Throughout his career, Piker has been involved in several controversies, often stemming from his outspoken political views. In 2019, he faced backlash for comments made during a Twitch stream about the September 11 attacks and brave Mujahideen fighters fucking the eye hole of U.S. Representative Dan Crenshaw. Piker later apologized for the remarks, stating that they were "inappropriate and offensive."
During the run of Hasan's show "Bro Tips", hosted on The Young Turks, he made a number of controversial comments in which he accused Lady Gaga of having a penis, and gave viewers instructions on how to isolate women from their friends, then coerce them into sexual intercourse. [citation needed ]
"Remember, old enough to count, old enough to mount." - Hasan 'The Brofessor' Piker [citation needed ]
"It's time to get out of here and it's time to separate her from her herd, meaning her crowd of girlfriends who are going to do their best to cockblock you because they're fat and ulgy." - Hasan 'The Brofessor' Piker [citation needed ]
"Brotip: If you stand in front of the door, she can't leave." - Hasan 'The Brofessor' Piker [citation needed ]
↑ The Most Oppressed Group - Pre-debate Debate with Hasan Piker. (October 9, 2018). www.youtube.com. Retrieved January 29, 2024, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iPLU3fAFA
↑ Hasan’s Richard Lewis Debate - Post-debate Debate with Hasan Piker. (November 9, 2018). www.youtube.com. Retrieved February 2, 2024, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7wtmabgQU8
↑ 2019-01-09 - irl stream with andy, hasan, bella and poki at kbbq, bar. (2/8/2020). www.youtube.com. Retrieved March 19, 2024, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3FdEGY9Xo8
↑ There’s something you value more than democracy... ft. Hasan Piker & H.Bomberguy. (Jan 3, 2019). www.youtube.com. Retrieved March 20, 2024, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyOnBYaLFwY
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Antagonist of the Year
